https://www.hondatalk.ro/ Thu, 16 Apr 2026 06:32:16 +0000 MyBB https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Inverted-tie-rods-do-they-work-or-not-YES Fri, 12 Mar 2021 15:56:42 +0000 kinky_boy]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Inverted-tie-rods-do-they-work-or-not-YES



The idea of this kit is, to jack/load up the suspension 1cm at a time and record the figures on the digital readers. Every centimeter the toe angle will change, although it would be great if it didn't move at all!

My setup :

Tein Street Advance Z Coilovers
Hard race inverted tie rod ends
Hard race roll centre adjusters
Centre of hub to arch distance : 33cm (so lowered around 40mm from stock)

I tested this setup back to back with OE style track rod ends. I wanted to know if the inverted versions did as they claim, or if they were terrible like everyone on the internet says (without proof).

Here are my findings :




Once you get your head around the graph, it's quite easy to understand.

This confirms that under load/bump, the inverted track rod ends actually toe in / bump steer LESS compared to the OE tie road, which is what they are designed to do.

I couldn't quite get to 4cm of compression, more like 3.5, and the figures just kept going in the same direction, meaning the bigger the bump on the OE style tie rod means even more toe in compared to the inverted. Now, this is what happened for my setup. Your setup could be different - I just wanted to share my findings.

I now have a bumpsteer gauge which I don't need. If anyone wants to buy it from me they are welcome, could even do a rental of it if a few people want to check out their figures. Or if you don't give a sh*t about these geeky figures, neither of the above]]>



The idea of this kit is, to jack/load up the suspension 1cm at a time and record the figures on the digital readers. Every centimeter the toe angle will change, although it would be great if it didn't move at all!

My setup :

Tein Street Advance Z Coilovers
Hard race inverted tie rod ends
Hard race roll centre adjusters
Centre of hub to arch distance : 33cm (so lowered around 40mm from stock)

I tested this setup back to back with OE style track rod ends. I wanted to know if the inverted versions did as they claim, or if they were terrible like everyone on the internet says (without proof).

Here are my findings :




Once you get your head around the graph, it's quite easy to understand.

This confirms that under load/bump, the inverted track rod ends actually toe in / bump steer LESS compared to the OE tie road, which is what they are designed to do.

I couldn't quite get to 4cm of compression, more like 3.5, and the figures just kept going in the same direction, meaning the bigger the bump on the OE style tie rod means even more toe in compared to the inverted. Now, this is what happened for my setup. Your setup could be different - I just wanted to share my findings.

I now have a bumpsteer gauge which I don't need. If anyone wants to buy it from me they are welcome, could even do a rental of it if a few people want to check out their figures. Or if you don't give a sh*t about these geeky figures, neither of the above]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Cele-mai-confortabile-suspensii-amortizoare Tue, 23 May 2017 14:15:59 +0000 uzkh21]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Cele-mai-confortabile-suspensii-amortizoare
Ar trebui sa schimb si eu amortizoarele in curand si as dori sa stiu care ar fi cele mai confortabile? Momentan am si jante pe 17 pe care as dori sa le schimb cu unele de 16".

Puteti sa-mi recomandati niste modele de amortizoare mai confortabile pentru Honda Civic 2012 5d ?

Va multumesc mult pentru informatii,

Vali]]>
Ar trebui sa schimb si eu amortizoarele in curand si as dori sa stiu care ar fi cele mai confortabile? Momentan am si jante pe 17 pe care as dori sa le schimb cu unele de 16".

Puteti sa-mi recomandati niste modele de amortizoare mai confortabile pentru Honda Civic 2012 5d ?

Va multumesc mult pentru informatii,

Vali]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-globalizatrea-industriala-sau-ce-dracu-sa-cumparam Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:55:08 +0000 LIVIU_CTS]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-globalizatrea-industriala-sau-ce-dracu-sa-cumparam kw, weitec, ap.....or mai fi.
pai, de ce pe mov e mai scump decat pe albastru? ))

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  IMG_1079_zpsdef1318a.jpg (Size: 9.23 KB / Downloads: 32) ]]> kw, weitec, ap.....or mai fi.
pai, de ce pe mov e mai scump decat pe albastru? ))

  fahrwerk1_4853700052850233709.jpg (Size: 87.61 KB / Downloads: 36)

  fahrwerk_6089958769622308375.jpg (Size: 89.98 KB / Downloads: 41)

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  IMG_1079_zpsdef1318a.jpg (Size: 9.23 KB / Downloads: 32) ]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-bucsi-FN2-FK-vs-FN2 Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:21:51 +0000 LIVIU_CTS]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-bucsi-FN2-FK-vs-FN2 trebuie bucsi pe fata si ma gandesc la niste poly sau oem de fn2]]> trebuie bucsi pe fata si ma gandesc la niste poly sau oem de fn2]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-salutare Sun, 31 May 2015 07:57:38 +0000 Goaji]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-salutare https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Conversie-Suspensie Tue, 08 Apr 2014 08:32:22 +0000 LauX_LauX_LauX]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Conversie-Suspensie Hybrid EF suspension/brakes.

Our cheap little EFs come stock with potentially wonderful fully-independent, unequal length, double wishbone suspension. They are the first civics to contain such a great leap of engineering design (heh). On top of this, the Honda designers were cheap enough to use similar suspension parts from this bitchin' design on some of their other models, like the Integra and other, newer civics. Know what that means? Yep, hybridization. I'm here to tell you what works, what doesn't and hopefully why.

UCA = upper control arm
LCA = lower control arm
DA = 90-93 integra
DC = 94+ integra
EG = 92-95 civic
EF = 88-91 civic
EX = trim model of one of the 90-91 4 door civics

If at any time the word "shock" pisses you off, I will gladly let you substitute in the word "damper."

Rear suspension

Rear LCA:
If you have an 88, your car has the "box in" type lower control arms. These aren't bad by any means, they are even lighter than any of the solid cast LCA's that all of the rest of civic/integra family uses. But it may be tough to find good aftermarket shocks that fit inside them. Or maybe you just want to use some readily available shocks or shocks you got a good deal on. If you plan to use shocks for an 89-91 civic/crx then you need to swap out the LCA's.

You can obviously use 89-91 LCA's. But it should be noted that some models didn't come with a sway bar and so they don't have the threaded holes for the sway endlinks. So try and get some with the threaded holes. If you don't, you will regret it later.

You can also use EG rear LCA's. They are the exact same length and all I've seen have had the holes for the sway bar links.

You can use DC and DA LCA's. But they are a 1/16" longer so you will end up with more negative camber in the rear. If you use these it would be wise to then switch to integra UCA's. Then at least your camber will stay the same.

Rear UCA:
There isn't a whole lot to this. The EG and EF upper control arms are the same length. The DA and DC UCA's are 1/16" longer. You can use them as cheap camber correction if you have EF/EG LCA's.

Trailing arms:
These are really only swapped out because of the brakes attached to them. The DA trailing arms are a good choice because they have 9.5" disc brakes hanging off them (same size as your DX's front brakes) and they can be had for cheap. Other than the brakes the trailing arms are identical. I don't know about DC or EG trailing arms and I'm not about to buy a set and spend an afternoon putting them on just to see if they fit. I have heard of them going on DA integras so I'd imagine they work on EFs too. If you know from experience let me know.

When swapping from drums to discs you will need the rear rubber brakelines (or ss if you like) and the e-brake cables from an EF Si or a DA integra.

Shocks:
If you have non-88 LCA's, any EF, DA or EG/DC rear shock will fit, but some are better than others. The DA shock, for instance, is about 1.5" longer than the stock EF shock. Just for the record, this height difference is ABOVE the perch. That means that your car will be the same height regardless of what shock you run. Travel is your friend and there is no sense in putting a longer shock in there unless you are going to raise it up and go rallying. The DA shocks, though, are valved stiffer than their EF counterpart.

The Shocks (originally Loc's pics from b17a.com):



Rear shock length differences

I e-mailed koni regarding the valving differences and here is what Gordon Benson said about the rear shocks (my Q in these: >):

">Are the rears valved with the same trend? i.e. stiffest to softest goes: DA
>integra, DC/EG, EF civic.

Well, the 89-91 Civic and the 92-00 Civic use the same rear shock. This is actually slightly softer than what the 90-93 Integra is but by a very small, likely unnoticeable difference. The Civic lengths though are still about an inch shorter than the Integra pieces. Thanks for writing."

If you have 88 LCA's then you can put DC Type R shocks in there. Whoopee.

Sway bar:
If you have a model that didn't have a sway bar then this is for you. If it did come with a sway bar then you are lucky and the only upgrade you will get is from an aftermarket bar.

Your EF will accept either an Si rear sway (15mm) or a DA rear sway (14.7mm for the coupe, 15.9mm for the sedan). You can identify the size of the bar by the #s molded into the bushing:



This is a DA coupe bushing

But if your car didn't come with one originally it is NOT a bolt in affair. See, the non-rear sway equipped cars didn't come with nice threaded holes in the control arms for the links, or holes (with welded nuts behind) in the frame rails for the sway locating brackets. So a sway install is a bit of a pain in the ass. I have installed both an Si rear sway and a DA rear bar on non-sway equipped cars, and the bars are really pretty much the same. The biggest difference, though, is the sway locating brackets. These are shorter for the EF than they are for the DA (assuming because of the less rear overhang in the civic/crx) so getting the EF version is preferred.

What I did was mock up the sway bar under the car, make some marks on the frame rails, then drill all the way into the trunk. Yes, into the trunk. Then I used some long grade 8 bolts for the brackets. That is the only way I could think of to get a good hold on them. I was not about to cut into the side of the frame rail and weld some nuts into the holes I drilled. If you have any other methods please let me know.

Aftermarket stuff:
Springs: DA, EG, and DC drop springs all fit but you probably don't want to use them because they were made for a heavier car and wont give you the drop they advertise. Coilovers, however, are fair game from 88-00 civics and integras. The integra versions tend to come with stiffer springs than the civic ones so keep that in mind.

Bars: Adjustable lower tie bars from any 88-00 civic/integra fit. Adjustable upper strut bars from a DA fit, and probably so do the adj. strut bars from an EG/DC. Fixed length lower ties from a DA fit, EG/DC do not (they are longer by about 3/8"). No other fixed length rear upper strut fits the EF chassis, not even the DA rear strut bar. Trust me. I make them and have both a DA and an EF.

Front suspension

Knuckles:
These, like the trailing arms, are really only changed because of the brakes. If you have a model that isn't an EX you have 9.5" brakes (the Si's may be a little bigger). If you have an EX you have 10.3" brakes. If you don't have an EX then you have really only 2 (good) choices: EX knuckles and DA teg knuckles.

The EX knuckles are regarded as the best knuckle upgrade for any EF civic. This is because they don't have any geometry differences and because they were "made" for a civic. The only problem with them is that they are a tad hard to find and become expensive if you want to get them from a junkyard with the brakes attached.

The DA knuckles (also with 10.3" brakes) on the other hand are plentiful, cheap and work great as well. They are, however, a bit heavier weighing in at 6lbs 7oz more per side than a full DX knuckle. Also, because they weren't made for any civic the geometry differences have been blown way out of proportion by message board folks and because of this, a lot of people are scared of the swap. The knuckles are ¼" taller than the civic knuckles but really, it is nothing. It raises the roll center ever so slightly and makes the camber curve a tiny bit more aggressive. So what? Who said the geometry was perfect to begin with? And caster is NOT affected by knuckles. It is determined by the ball joint locations on the control arms. So stop saying the knuckles themselves change/screw up caster! They don't and never will.

You can put the DA calipers and rotors on EX knuckles without any issues.

I have the DA knuckles myself and have to say that I have not felt nor seen ANY adverse effects, even after a full season of autox with them. I even switched back to DX knuckles for a while and noted absolutely NO gain, only a loss in braking power.

One of these days I will get my hands on an integra knuckle and a civic knuckle when I can really sit down and measure them both.

Once again I don't know about the EG/DC knuckles. I have seen some threads about people having major camber problems with them but have no personal experience so I cant say.

Front UCA's:
Don't use DA integra UCA's. This is where a lot of people go wrong when using the DA knuckles. They use these UCA's and it gives them positive camber and less caster. Then they blame it on the knuckles. Waaaaaa...

The EG/DC UCA's don't fit at all. The distance between the anchor bolts is completely different between the EF/DA's and the EG/DC's. Look:



Notice how the widths, among other things, are different.

Brake system:
If you have a DX or something similar you have a 13/16 master cylinder. That is small. 15/16" MCs that bolt right up to your stock booster are: 88-91 prelude, 89or so accord LXi, and 90-91 civic EX. You can also use the 90-93 integra 15/16 (non ABS) MC but you NEED to use the booster as well. If you want to use the DA 1" ABS MC and booster you have to put a different fitting (its larger) on one of the lines that goes into the MC.

On top of all that you can use a 1" MC from an ITR or a DC GSR. For that you will need both the MC and the booster, then you need to re-bend one of the lines to get it to bolt up. Fortunately there are no differences in the fitting sizes like with the DA 1" MC.

I personally have the DA 1" MC/booster and it is great. The fitting was kind of a pain but definitely not impossible if you own a flaring tool.

If you have disc brakes all around and they didn't come stock you probably should swap out your stock proportioning valve for one that says "40/40" on the side. This comes in Si and EX 88-91 civics, and DA integras.

Shocks/forks:
You can use DA front shocks with no modification. The only problem is that they are around 1" longer in the body (stock vs stock) and that means less travel in your lowered car. It seems, though, that many aftermarket companies feel that the DA and EF shocks are so similar that there is no need to make two different products. Examples include the tokico blues shown below and kyb AGXs (same part number). I had AGXs and they were longer than my stock EF shocks, shorter than my stock DA shocks, and 1/2" longer than my EF Koni Yellows. Odd, eh?

The Shocks (originally Loc's pics from b17a.com):



Front shock length differences

You can also use EG/DC shocks (EG shocks are exactly the same as DC shocks) if you feel so inclined. All you need to do is use EG/DC forks. Heres what Gordon Benson at koni has to say about the front EG/DC shocks vs DA and EF shocks (koni yellows anyway):

"The valving for all of those applications are different because they are all for different vehicles. When we create a valving for a shock, we tailor it to the needs of that car and not try to fit one valving for many. Of these ones you listed, the 90-93 Integra is firmest in compression and rebound. The 94+ Integra (and 92-00 Civic) is about the same in rebound but slightly softer in compression and the 88-91 Civic is valved the "softest" though it isn't by a lot."

Then more specifically the EF vs EG koni shock:

"...the biggest change with the 88-91 and the 92-00 Civic is that the lower "wishbone" (what the shocks go into on the bottom) is smaller on the 88-91 cars. This can be interchanged though the lengths and the valving between the 2 Civic applications isn't worth the work. The valving is basically identical and the lengths are less than a half inch of each other."

The EF and DA forks are exactly the same and so are the EG and DC and all 4 of them have the same height (no matter what anyone tells you). EF/DA fork on left, EG/DC fork on right:



EF fork on L; EG fork on R

The only difference between the EF/DA forks and the EG/DC forks is that the EG/DC forks have an inside diameter .15" larger than the EF/DA forks. This is because the EG/DC shocks are fatter than their EF counterparts.



EF fork on L; EG fork on R

With a little fork modification it is possible to use the DC/EG forks with EF shocks and gain around ¾" of shock travel by slipping the fork OVER the bottom of the brake line bracket. I have a writeup on how to do that here (its at the bottom).

Front sway bar:
All the non-celalalt forum EFs come with an 18mm front sway. The celalalt forum has a 17mm front sway and it bolts right on to your non-celalalt forum. DA integras come with 22mm front sways which bolt on, but you probably don't want to use it because it will result in MORE understeer. From my understanding the EG/DC front sways don't bolt in.

Aftermarket stuff:
Springs: Again, you probably don't want to use the drop springs from another car because it will result in screwed up ride height. But any 88-00 civic/integra coilovers work just fine.

Bars: None of the other civics/integras have a front lower tie that works, not even the DA. Adjustable DA front strut bars fit and adjustable EG/DC ones do not. I am not sure whether fixed length DA front strut bars fit as I have only made one for my EF and have not tried it on the DA.]]> Hybrid EF suspension/brakes.

Our cheap little EFs come stock with potentially wonderful fully-independent, unequal length, double wishbone suspension. They are the first civics to contain such a great leap of engineering design (heh). On top of this, the Honda designers were cheap enough to use similar suspension parts from this bitchin' design on some of their other models, like the Integra and other, newer civics. Know what that means? Yep, hybridization. I'm here to tell you what works, what doesn't and hopefully why.

UCA = upper control arm
LCA = lower control arm
DA = 90-93 integra
DC = 94+ integra
EG = 92-95 civic
EF = 88-91 civic
EX = trim model of one of the 90-91 4 door civics

If at any time the word "shock" pisses you off, I will gladly let you substitute in the word "damper."

Rear suspension

Rear LCA:
If you have an 88, your car has the "box in" type lower control arms. These aren't bad by any means, they are even lighter than any of the solid cast LCA's that all of the rest of civic/integra family uses. But it may be tough to find good aftermarket shocks that fit inside them. Or maybe you just want to use some readily available shocks or shocks you got a good deal on. If you plan to use shocks for an 89-91 civic/crx then you need to swap out the LCA's.

You can obviously use 89-91 LCA's. But it should be noted that some models didn't come with a sway bar and so they don't have the threaded holes for the sway endlinks. So try and get some with the threaded holes. If you don't, you will regret it later.

You can also use EG rear LCA's. They are the exact same length and all I've seen have had the holes for the sway bar links.

You can use DC and DA LCA's. But they are a 1/16" longer so you will end up with more negative camber in the rear. If you use these it would be wise to then switch to integra UCA's. Then at least your camber will stay the same.

Rear UCA:
There isn't a whole lot to this. The EG and EF upper control arms are the same length. The DA and DC UCA's are 1/16" longer. You can use them as cheap camber correction if you have EF/EG LCA's.

Trailing arms:
These are really only swapped out because of the brakes attached to them. The DA trailing arms are a good choice because they have 9.5" disc brakes hanging off them (same size as your DX's front brakes) and they can be had for cheap. Other than the brakes the trailing arms are identical. I don't know about DC or EG trailing arms and I'm not about to buy a set and spend an afternoon putting them on just to see if they fit. I have heard of them going on DA integras so I'd imagine they work on EFs too. If you know from experience let me know.

When swapping from drums to discs you will need the rear rubber brakelines (or ss if you like) and the e-brake cables from an EF Si or a DA integra.

Shocks:
If you have non-88 LCA's, any EF, DA or EG/DC rear shock will fit, but some are better than others. The DA shock, for instance, is about 1.5" longer than the stock EF shock. Just for the record, this height difference is ABOVE the perch. That means that your car will be the same height regardless of what shock you run. Travel is your friend and there is no sense in putting a longer shock in there unless you are going to raise it up and go rallying. The DA shocks, though, are valved stiffer than their EF counterpart.

The Shocks (originally Loc's pics from b17a.com):



Rear shock length differences

I e-mailed koni regarding the valving differences and here is what Gordon Benson said about the rear shocks (my Q in these: >):

">Are the rears valved with the same trend? i.e. stiffest to softest goes: DA
>integra, DC/EG, EF civic.

Well, the 89-91 Civic and the 92-00 Civic use the same rear shock. This is actually slightly softer than what the 90-93 Integra is but by a very small, likely unnoticeable difference. The Civic lengths though are still about an inch shorter than the Integra pieces. Thanks for writing."

If you have 88 LCA's then you can put DC Type R shocks in there. Whoopee.

Sway bar:
If you have a model that didn't have a sway bar then this is for you. If it did come with a sway bar then you are lucky and the only upgrade you will get is from an aftermarket bar.

Your EF will accept either an Si rear sway (15mm) or a DA rear sway (14.7mm for the coupe, 15.9mm for the sedan). You can identify the size of the bar by the #s molded into the bushing:



This is a DA coupe bushing

But if your car didn't come with one originally it is NOT a bolt in affair. See, the non-rear sway equipped cars didn't come with nice threaded holes in the control arms for the links, or holes (with welded nuts behind) in the frame rails for the sway locating brackets. So a sway install is a bit of a pain in the ass. I have installed both an Si rear sway and a DA rear bar on non-sway equipped cars, and the bars are really pretty much the same. The biggest difference, though, is the sway locating brackets. These are shorter for the EF than they are for the DA (assuming because of the less rear overhang in the civic/crx) so getting the EF version is preferred.

What I did was mock up the sway bar under the car, make some marks on the frame rails, then drill all the way into the trunk. Yes, into the trunk. Then I used some long grade 8 bolts for the brackets. That is the only way I could think of to get a good hold on them. I was not about to cut into the side of the frame rail and weld some nuts into the holes I drilled. If you have any other methods please let me know.

Aftermarket stuff:
Springs: DA, EG, and DC drop springs all fit but you probably don't want to use them because they were made for a heavier car and wont give you the drop they advertise. Coilovers, however, are fair game from 88-00 civics and integras. The integra versions tend to come with stiffer springs than the civic ones so keep that in mind.

Bars: Adjustable lower tie bars from any 88-00 civic/integra fit. Adjustable upper strut bars from a DA fit, and probably so do the adj. strut bars from an EG/DC. Fixed length lower ties from a DA fit, EG/DC do not (they are longer by about 3/8"). No other fixed length rear upper strut fits the EF chassis, not even the DA rear strut bar. Trust me. I make them and have both a DA and an EF.

Front suspension

Knuckles:
These, like the trailing arms, are really only changed because of the brakes. If you have a model that isn't an EX you have 9.5" brakes (the Si's may be a little bigger). If you have an EX you have 10.3" brakes. If you don't have an EX then you have really only 2 (good) choices: EX knuckles and DA teg knuckles.

The EX knuckles are regarded as the best knuckle upgrade for any EF civic. This is because they don't have any geometry differences and because they were "made" for a civic. The only problem with them is that they are a tad hard to find and become expensive if you want to get them from a junkyard with the brakes attached.

The DA knuckles (also with 10.3" brakes) on the other hand are plentiful, cheap and work great as well. They are, however, a bit heavier weighing in at 6lbs 7oz more per side than a full DX knuckle. Also, because they weren't made for any civic the geometry differences have been blown way out of proportion by message board folks and because of this, a lot of people are scared of the swap. The knuckles are ¼" taller than the civic knuckles but really, it is nothing. It raises the roll center ever so slightly and makes the camber curve a tiny bit more aggressive. So what? Who said the geometry was perfect to begin with? And caster is NOT affected by knuckles. It is determined by the ball joint locations on the control arms. So stop saying the knuckles themselves change/screw up caster! They don't and never will.

You can put the DA calipers and rotors on EX knuckles without any issues.

I have the DA knuckles myself and have to say that I have not felt nor seen ANY adverse effects, even after a full season of autox with them. I even switched back to DX knuckles for a while and noted absolutely NO gain, only a loss in braking power.

One of these days I will get my hands on an integra knuckle and a civic knuckle when I can really sit down and measure them both.

Once again I don't know about the EG/DC knuckles. I have seen some threads about people having major camber problems with them but have no personal experience so I cant say.

Front UCA's:
Don't use DA integra UCA's. This is where a lot of people go wrong when using the DA knuckles. They use these UCA's and it gives them positive camber and less caster. Then they blame it on the knuckles. Waaaaaa...

The EG/DC UCA's don't fit at all. The distance between the anchor bolts is completely different between the EF/DA's and the EG/DC's. Look:



Notice how the widths, among other things, are different.

Brake system:
If you have a DX or something similar you have a 13/16 master cylinder. That is small. 15/16" MCs that bolt right up to your stock booster are: 88-91 prelude, 89or so accord LXi, and 90-91 civic EX. You can also use the 90-93 integra 15/16 (non ABS) MC but you NEED to use the booster as well. If you want to use the DA 1" ABS MC and booster you have to put a different fitting (its larger) on one of the lines that goes into the MC.

On top of all that you can use a 1" MC from an ITR or a DC GSR. For that you will need both the MC and the booster, then you need to re-bend one of the lines to get it to bolt up. Fortunately there are no differences in the fitting sizes like with the DA 1" MC.

I personally have the DA 1" MC/booster and it is great. The fitting was kind of a pain but definitely not impossible if you own a flaring tool.

If you have disc brakes all around and they didn't come stock you probably should swap out your stock proportioning valve for one that says "40/40" on the side. This comes in Si and EX 88-91 civics, and DA integras.

Shocks/forks:
You can use DA front shocks with no modification. The only problem is that they are around 1" longer in the body (stock vs stock) and that means less travel in your lowered car. It seems, though, that many aftermarket companies feel that the DA and EF shocks are so similar that there is no need to make two different products. Examples include the tokico blues shown below and kyb AGXs (same part number). I had AGXs and they were longer than my stock EF shocks, shorter than my stock DA shocks, and 1/2" longer than my EF Koni Yellows. Odd, eh?

The Shocks (originally Loc's pics from b17a.com):



Front shock length differences

You can also use EG/DC shocks (EG shocks are exactly the same as DC shocks) if you feel so inclined. All you need to do is use EG/DC forks. Heres what Gordon Benson at koni has to say about the front EG/DC shocks vs DA and EF shocks (koni yellows anyway):

"The valving for all of those applications are different because they are all for different vehicles. When we create a valving for a shock, we tailor it to the needs of that car and not try to fit one valving for many. Of these ones you listed, the 90-93 Integra is firmest in compression and rebound. The 94+ Integra (and 92-00 Civic) is about the same in rebound but slightly softer in compression and the 88-91 Civic is valved the "softest" though it isn't by a lot."

Then more specifically the EF vs EG koni shock:

"...the biggest change with the 88-91 and the 92-00 Civic is that the lower "wishbone" (what the shocks go into on the bottom) is smaller on the 88-91 cars. This can be interchanged though the lengths and the valving between the 2 Civic applications isn't worth the work. The valving is basically identical and the lengths are less than a half inch of each other."

The EF and DA forks are exactly the same and so are the EG and DC and all 4 of them have the same height (no matter what anyone tells you). EF/DA fork on left, EG/DC fork on right:



EF fork on L; EG fork on R

The only difference between the EF/DA forks and the EG/DC forks is that the EG/DC forks have an inside diameter .15" larger than the EF/DA forks. This is because the EG/DC shocks are fatter than their EF counterparts.



EF fork on L; EG fork on R

With a little fork modification it is possible to use the DC/EG forks with EF shocks and gain around ¾" of shock travel by slipping the fork OVER the bottom of the brake line bracket. I have a writeup on how to do that here (its at the bottom).

Front sway bar:
All the non-celalalt forum EFs come with an 18mm front sway. The celalalt forum has a 17mm front sway and it bolts right on to your non-celalalt forum. DA integras come with 22mm front sways which bolt on, but you probably don't want to use it because it will result in MORE understeer. From my understanding the EG/DC front sways don't bolt in.

Aftermarket stuff:
Springs: Again, you probably don't want to use the drop springs from another car because it will result in screwed up ride height. But any 88-00 civic/integra coilovers work just fine.

Bars: None of the other civics/integras have a front lower tie that works, not even the DA. Adjustable DA front strut bars fit and adjustable EG/DC ones do not. I am not sure whether fixed length DA front strut bars fit as I have only made one for my EF and have not tried it on the DA.]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Intrebare-arcuri Thu, 26 Dec 2013 00:02:57 +0000 Valyi93]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Intrebare-arcuri https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-negative-positive-offset Tue, 17 Dec 2013 20:52:27 +0000 LIVIU_CTS]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-negative-positive-offset All of this brings us to wheel offset, which is simply the distance between the wheel's hub-mounting surface and its center plane. Positive offset means the hub-mounting surface is closer to the wheel's outboard side. Conversely, negative offset means it's closer to the inboard side. If the mounting surface coincides with the wheel's center plane then offset measures in at zero. In other words, offset determines the lateral, or side to side, position of the wheel. As wheel widths change, the offset combined with the new width must be chosen properly so that the wheel and tire have enough space within the wheelwell to avoid rubbing or unwanted contact with other components.



Front-wheel-drive cars are generally equipped with positive offset wheels. Most manufacturers design cars with a negative scrub radius up front that is made possible by positive offsets. The scrub radius simply refers to the distance between the point where the steering axis intersects the pavement and the center of the tire's contact patch. Since the scrub radius has to do with steering geometry, such positive offset requirements only apply up front. However, since factories typically prefer using similar wheels all around to reduce manufacturing costs, the rear wheels typically get the same positive offset wheels as the front. If we're talking about rear-wheel-drive cars, then most OEMs incorporate a minimal scrub radius up front.



Why should you Care?
The ability to understand wheel offset can help solve a variety of wheel fitment issues. Wheel and tire upsizing often requires altered offsets. The wheel supplier will usually have the information necessary in terms of which offsets will and will not work, and, if that doesn't work, there's probably at least one thread somewhere on the Web with at least one guy who's tried the same wheel combo you're considering, but don't count on it. Sometimes the info just isn't there and the only way to know for sure is to measure and calculate. It all begins with your stock wheels and tires.



The offset of a wheel is the distance from its hub mounting surface to the centerline of the wheel. The offset can be one of three types (measured in millimeters).*
Zero Offset

The hub mounting surface is even with the centerline of the wheel.
Positive

The hub mounting surface is toward the front or wheel side of the wheel. Positive offset wheels are generally found on front wheel drive cars and newer rear drive cars.
Negative

The hub mounting surface is toward the back or brake side of the wheels centerline. "Deep dish" wheels are typically a negative offset.

The minimum clearances on both sides of the OEM wheel/tire package must be accounted for prior to assuming a potential maximum tire width-this includes the space between the nearest suspension component as well as the fender. Keep in mind that oftentimes when dealing with extreme steering positions, minimal, inner wheelwell tire rubbing might occur. Also, some tires measure differently than others. For example, some 225mm-wide tires measure similar to some that are labeled as much as 245mm. It's best to allow an 1/8-inch of play for potentially wider tires.



More about offset
With clearances measured, you're almost ready to look really smart in front of your friends. First: A wider tire on a similarly offset wheel reduces the gap the same amount on both sides but adding 1mm of offset moves the wheel away from the fender-closer to the inner wheelwell-by 1mm. Usually, the inner and outer gaps will be different and this is why new wheels require different offsets. To center the tire so that the inner and outer gaps are equal, take the distance of the outer gap, subtract the inner gap from that figure, and divide this number by two. Add this figure to the old wheel's offset, this gives you the new wheel's offset. For example, imagine a stock 195mm tire and a new 225mm one. Picture inner and outer gaps, 30mm and 21mm, respectively. Give the old wheel a 45mm offset but first be sure the new tire will fit. Since the total gap in this example is 51mm (30mm plus 21mm), and the tire width increased by 30mm, then there is 21mm left over. Even after assuming that the new tire might be an extra 1/4-inch (6.4mm) wider than expected, there's still more than 14mm clearance. In short, 225mm will work. Subtract the inner gap from the outer gap, which is -9mm (21mm minus 30mm), to obtain the new wheel's offset. Take half of this number (-4.5mm or simply round to -5mm), add this figure to the old offset, which was 45mm to net your 40mm offset. A quick check of Volk TE37 and CE28 wheel offsets reveals a +35mm and +42mm offset available in 15x7, both of which will work just fine.

On a related note, you also need to know about backspacing. Specifically, it's the distance between the wheel's inboard outer edge and its hub-mounting surface. Proper backspacing calculations ensure against any unwanted clearance issues between tires and suspension members, especially when larger wheels and tires are used. Enough said.

How to measure it
Offset can be measured with or without the tire installed. When measuring with the tire, offset can still be measured without deflating it, however, it might be more accurate to measure offset on a bare wheel but that doesn't mean you can't get within a millimeter or two of the true figure with tires in place. After all, as long as offset is measured within a 2mm tolerance, things should be fine. Should you go the tire-installed route, it's easiest to measure the overall tire width using a straightedge placed across the tire to a level spot on the ground. Next, measure from the same straightedge location to the wheel's mounting surface. The only tools required to measure offset are a long straightedge, a tape measure, and this simple mathematical formula:



Offset equals 0.5 (tire or wheel width) minus the distance from the mounting surface to the tire or rim edge.


Offset and track widths
Altering offsets also changes track widths. Reduced offsets result in larger track widths. This can improve cornering speeds by reducing lateral load transfer from the inside tires to the outside tires. By keeping the tire loads uniform, tires can generate increased lateral grip. This is why most race car tires are as far outboard as possible. On the other hand, changing the wheel width does not change the track.

Another way to increase track without having to purchase new wheels is to install wheel spacers. Spacers are available in different thicknesses, from about 5mm to 30mm or more, depending on the application. Eibach manufactures one of the nicest sets of spacers on the market. Their spacers are precision machined with tight tolerances, which helps ensure that wheels stay securely attached to their hubs. Eibach manufactures 5mm non-hub centric and 15mm hub centric options, each with longer wheel studs.

Determining the proper offset when upsizing wheels and tires can be challenging. It's difficult to determine how far the tire will extend over the wheel lip for a particular tire and rim combination. Therefore, it's difficult to know beforehand whether the tire will rub on the suspension or the fender. Even with a small tire width change on the same wheel it's possible to estimate how much wider the new tire will be. For example, West Coast Honda Challenge H4 multiple champion Edik Stepanyan somehow shoehorned a Toyo 245/45-16 RA-1 onto a rules-specified, 7-inch-wide wheel and then fitted four of them onto his '93 Integra race car. He used 225/45-15 sized tires previously and with careful clearance measurements on both sides of the tire he determined that the 245's extra width would fit using wheels with a more common offset, and this was on a car that came from the factory with 195/60-14s on 51/2-inch rims. Needless to say, the gaps on both sides of the tire are minimal.



Wide Offset Fender Flared Ep3 Civic Deep Dish Wheels
Don't get us wrong, the low offsets look cool, like on this EP3 Civic, but don't expect your front-wheel drive to handle as well as it did if you were to stick with something closer to what Honda intended.

The scrub radius
Altering wheel offsets also affects the scrub radius. Recall that the scrub radius is the ground-level measurement between the kingpin inclination axis (KIA) and the tire contact patch's center. For double-wishbone suspensions, like most pre-'01 Hondas, the KIA is the angle between a vertical axis and the imaginary line through the top and bottom ball joints' centers when viewed from the front of the car. For a strut-based car, the imaginary axis travels from the top bearing mount's center to the lower ball joint's center. If the KIA intercepts the ground outboard of the tire contact patch's center, then the scrub radius is negative. On the other hand, if the KIA intercepts the ground inboard of the tire contact patch's center, then the scrub radius is positive. Front-wheel-drive cars, including Hondas, are usually set up with a negative scrub radius.

A negative scrub radius is preferred for front-wheel-drive cars since it gives a stabilizing effect when traction between the left and right wheels varies. If a single front wheel loses traction during acceleration or braking-like what would occur if one tire goes over a patch of ice-the other front wheel will toe-out a certain degree depending on the amount of steering compliance, which will tend to steer the car in a straight line. At the same time, the driver will feel a certain amount of kickback through the steering wheel.

Wide Offset Hitting Rolled Fenders On Bumps
Although not related directly to wheel offset, another dangerous trend adopted from the drifting world is tire stretching. Undersized, stretched tires make for great slides on the track but a dangerous ride on the street. Do this one at your own risk.



Spacing wheels out by means of smaller offsets or spacers increases the scrub radius. This makes a negative scrub radius less negative, maybe even positive. This could lead to unequal front-wheel traction depending upon the difference between the old and new offsets.

Offset also affects suspension stiffness through the suspension's motion ratio. With less offset, the wheel's leverage about the inboard lower control arm pivot increases while the suspension spring leverage remains constant. The net effect is a reduction in the effective wheel spring rate. For example, a stock DC2 Integra fitted with wheels with 10mm less offset will have a 5 percent lower wheel rate. Therefore, to recover the lost suspension stiffness, a 5 percent stiffer spring is needed.

Offset and its effects
Production cars are built with wheel offsets that minimize wheel-bearing load. In corners, excessive lateral tire loads add stress to wheel bearings. Altering offsets affect how much load each of the two wheel bearings see both in straight-line driving and during cornering. Production-based race cars like the CRX and Integra that run stickier tires and less positive offset, exhibit somewhat high-bearing loads. Thankfully, Honda wheel bearings are strong and few problems occur.


Broken Civic Knuckle
Improper wheel offsets can lead to a variety of problems ranging from poor handling characteristics to broken suspension components.

Even suspension knuckles aren't immune from offset changes. Longtime Honda racer Sam Rothschild has suffered two complete knuckle failures on his CRX. Of course, he runs +35 offset wheels with sticky Toyo 225/50-15 RA-1 tires and a stiff suspension. The added leverage created by this offset causes a much larger bending moment in the knuckle, which over time led to a fatigue fracture on two different knuckles, but this is for a highly stressed race car.]]> All of this brings us to wheel offset, which is simply the distance between the wheel's hub-mounting surface and its center plane. Positive offset means the hub-mounting surface is closer to the wheel's outboard side. Conversely, negative offset means it's closer to the inboard side. If the mounting surface coincides with the wheel's center plane then offset measures in at zero. In other words, offset determines the lateral, or side to side, position of the wheel. As wheel widths change, the offset combined with the new width must be chosen properly so that the wheel and tire have enough space within the wheelwell to avoid rubbing or unwanted contact with other components.



Front-wheel-drive cars are generally equipped with positive offset wheels. Most manufacturers design cars with a negative scrub radius up front that is made possible by positive offsets. The scrub radius simply refers to the distance between the point where the steering axis intersects the pavement and the center of the tire's contact patch. Since the scrub radius has to do with steering geometry, such positive offset requirements only apply up front. However, since factories typically prefer using similar wheels all around to reduce manufacturing costs, the rear wheels typically get the same positive offset wheels as the front. If we're talking about rear-wheel-drive cars, then most OEMs incorporate a minimal scrub radius up front.



Why should you Care?
The ability to understand wheel offset can help solve a variety of wheel fitment issues. Wheel and tire upsizing often requires altered offsets. The wheel supplier will usually have the information necessary in terms of which offsets will and will not work, and, if that doesn't work, there's probably at least one thread somewhere on the Web with at least one guy who's tried the same wheel combo you're considering, but don't count on it. Sometimes the info just isn't there and the only way to know for sure is to measure and calculate. It all begins with your stock wheels and tires.



The offset of a wheel is the distance from its hub mounting surface to the centerline of the wheel. The offset can be one of three types (measured in millimeters).*
Zero Offset

The hub mounting surface is even with the centerline of the wheel.
Positive

The hub mounting surface is toward the front or wheel side of the wheel. Positive offset wheels are generally found on front wheel drive cars and newer rear drive cars.
Negative

The hub mounting surface is toward the back or brake side of the wheels centerline. "Deep dish" wheels are typically a negative offset.

The minimum clearances on both sides of the OEM wheel/tire package must be accounted for prior to assuming a potential maximum tire width-this includes the space between the nearest suspension component as well as the fender. Keep in mind that oftentimes when dealing with extreme steering positions, minimal, inner wheelwell tire rubbing might occur. Also, some tires measure differently than others. For example, some 225mm-wide tires measure similar to some that are labeled as much as 245mm. It's best to allow an 1/8-inch of play for potentially wider tires.



More about offset
With clearances measured, you're almost ready to look really smart in front of your friends. First: A wider tire on a similarly offset wheel reduces the gap the same amount on both sides but adding 1mm of offset moves the wheel away from the fender-closer to the inner wheelwell-by 1mm. Usually, the inner and outer gaps will be different and this is why new wheels require different offsets. To center the tire so that the inner and outer gaps are equal, take the distance of the outer gap, subtract the inner gap from that figure, and divide this number by two. Add this figure to the old wheel's offset, this gives you the new wheel's offset. For example, imagine a stock 195mm tire and a new 225mm one. Picture inner and outer gaps, 30mm and 21mm, respectively. Give the old wheel a 45mm offset but first be sure the new tire will fit. Since the total gap in this example is 51mm (30mm plus 21mm), and the tire width increased by 30mm, then there is 21mm left over. Even after assuming that the new tire might be an extra 1/4-inch (6.4mm) wider than expected, there's still more than 14mm clearance. In short, 225mm will work. Subtract the inner gap from the outer gap, which is -9mm (21mm minus 30mm), to obtain the new wheel's offset. Take half of this number (-4.5mm or simply round to -5mm), add this figure to the old offset, which was 45mm to net your 40mm offset. A quick check of Volk TE37 and CE28 wheel offsets reveals a +35mm and +42mm offset available in 15x7, both of which will work just fine.

On a related note, you also need to know about backspacing. Specifically, it's the distance between the wheel's inboard outer edge and its hub-mounting surface. Proper backspacing calculations ensure against any unwanted clearance issues between tires and suspension members, especially when larger wheels and tires are used. Enough said.

How to measure it
Offset can be measured with or without the tire installed. When measuring with the tire, offset can still be measured without deflating it, however, it might be more accurate to measure offset on a bare wheel but that doesn't mean you can't get within a millimeter or two of the true figure with tires in place. After all, as long as offset is measured within a 2mm tolerance, things should be fine. Should you go the tire-installed route, it's easiest to measure the overall tire width using a straightedge placed across the tire to a level spot on the ground. Next, measure from the same straightedge location to the wheel's mounting surface. The only tools required to measure offset are a long straightedge, a tape measure, and this simple mathematical formula:



Offset equals 0.5 (tire or wheel width) minus the distance from the mounting surface to the tire or rim edge.


Offset and track widths
Altering offsets also changes track widths. Reduced offsets result in larger track widths. This can improve cornering speeds by reducing lateral load transfer from the inside tires to the outside tires. By keeping the tire loads uniform, tires can generate increased lateral grip. This is why most race car tires are as far outboard as possible. On the other hand, changing the wheel width does not change the track.

Another way to increase track without having to purchase new wheels is to install wheel spacers. Spacers are available in different thicknesses, from about 5mm to 30mm or more, depending on the application. Eibach manufactures one of the nicest sets of spacers on the market. Their spacers are precision machined with tight tolerances, which helps ensure that wheels stay securely attached to their hubs. Eibach manufactures 5mm non-hub centric and 15mm hub centric options, each with longer wheel studs.

Determining the proper offset when upsizing wheels and tires can be challenging. It's difficult to determine how far the tire will extend over the wheel lip for a particular tire and rim combination. Therefore, it's difficult to know beforehand whether the tire will rub on the suspension or the fender. Even with a small tire width change on the same wheel it's possible to estimate how much wider the new tire will be. For example, West Coast Honda Challenge H4 multiple champion Edik Stepanyan somehow shoehorned a Toyo 245/45-16 RA-1 onto a rules-specified, 7-inch-wide wheel and then fitted four of them onto his '93 Integra race car. He used 225/45-15 sized tires previously and with careful clearance measurements on both sides of the tire he determined that the 245's extra width would fit using wheels with a more common offset, and this was on a car that came from the factory with 195/60-14s on 51/2-inch rims. Needless to say, the gaps on both sides of the tire are minimal.



Wide Offset Fender Flared Ep3 Civic Deep Dish Wheels
Don't get us wrong, the low offsets look cool, like on this EP3 Civic, but don't expect your front-wheel drive to handle as well as it did if you were to stick with something closer to what Honda intended.

The scrub radius
Altering wheel offsets also affects the scrub radius. Recall that the scrub radius is the ground-level measurement between the kingpin inclination axis (KIA) and the tire contact patch's center. For double-wishbone suspensions, like most pre-'01 Hondas, the KIA is the angle between a vertical axis and the imaginary line through the top and bottom ball joints' centers when viewed from the front of the car. For a strut-based car, the imaginary axis travels from the top bearing mount's center to the lower ball joint's center. If the KIA intercepts the ground outboard of the tire contact patch's center, then the scrub radius is negative. On the other hand, if the KIA intercepts the ground inboard of the tire contact patch's center, then the scrub radius is positive. Front-wheel-drive cars, including Hondas, are usually set up with a negative scrub radius.

A negative scrub radius is preferred for front-wheel-drive cars since it gives a stabilizing effect when traction between the left and right wheels varies. If a single front wheel loses traction during acceleration or braking-like what would occur if one tire goes over a patch of ice-the other front wheel will toe-out a certain degree depending on the amount of steering compliance, which will tend to steer the car in a straight line. At the same time, the driver will feel a certain amount of kickback through the steering wheel.

Wide Offset Hitting Rolled Fenders On Bumps
Although not related directly to wheel offset, another dangerous trend adopted from the drifting world is tire stretching. Undersized, stretched tires make for great slides on the track but a dangerous ride on the street. Do this one at your own risk.



Spacing wheels out by means of smaller offsets or spacers increases the scrub radius. This makes a negative scrub radius less negative, maybe even positive. This could lead to unequal front-wheel traction depending upon the difference between the old and new offsets.

Offset also affects suspension stiffness through the suspension's motion ratio. With less offset, the wheel's leverage about the inboard lower control arm pivot increases while the suspension spring leverage remains constant. The net effect is a reduction in the effective wheel spring rate. For example, a stock DC2 Integra fitted with wheels with 10mm less offset will have a 5 percent lower wheel rate. Therefore, to recover the lost suspension stiffness, a 5 percent stiffer spring is needed.

Offset and its effects
Production cars are built with wheel offsets that minimize wheel-bearing load. In corners, excessive lateral tire loads add stress to wheel bearings. Altering offsets affect how much load each of the two wheel bearings see both in straight-line driving and during cornering. Production-based race cars like the CRX and Integra that run stickier tires and less positive offset, exhibit somewhat high-bearing loads. Thankfully, Honda wheel bearings are strong and few problems occur.


Broken Civic Knuckle
Improper wheel offsets can lead to a variety of problems ranging from poor handling characteristics to broken suspension components.

Even suspension knuckles aren't immune from offset changes. Longtime Honda racer Sam Rothschild has suffered two complete knuckle failures on his CRX. Of course, he runs +35 offset wheels with sticky Toyo 225/50-15 RA-1 tires and a stiff suspension. The added leverage created by this offset causes a much larger bending moment in the knuckle, which over time led to a fatigue fracture on two different knuckles, but this is for a highly stressed race car.]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Bound-rebound-and-more Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:57:51 +0000 kinky_boy]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Bound-rebound-and-more


BRIEF HISTORY

In the early 1900's, cars still rode on carriage springs. After all, early drivers had bigger things to worry about than the quality of their ride - like keeping their cars rolling over the rocks and ruts that often passed for roads.
Pioneering vehicle manufacturers were faced early on with the challenges of enhancing driver control and passenger comfort. These early suspension designs found the front wheels attached to the axle using steering spindles and kingpins. This allowed the wheels to pivot while the axle remained stationary. Additionally, the up and down oscillation of the leaf spring was damped by device called a shock absorber.
shock absorber, history
Early shock absorbers

These first shock absorbers were simply two arms connected by a bolt with a friction disk between them. Resistance was adjusted by tightening or loosening the bolt.
As might be expected, the shocks were not very durable, and the performance left much to be desired. Over the years, shock absorbers have evolved into more sophisticated designs.


Despite what many people think, conventional shock absorbers do not support vehicle weight. Instead, the primary purpose of the shock absorber is to control spring and suspension movement. This is accomplished by turning the kinetic energy of suspension movement into thermal energy, or heat energy, to be dissipated through the hydraulic fluid.
You want more technical terms? Technically they are called dampers. Even more technically, they are velocity-sensitive hydraulic damping devices - in other words, the faster they move, the more resistance there is to that movement. They work in conjunction with the springs. The spring allows movement of the wheel to allow the energy in the road shock to be transformed into kinetic energy of the unsprung mass, whereupon it is dissipated by the damper and heat. The damper does this by forcing gas or oil through a constriction valve (a small hole). Adjustable shock absorbers allow you to change the size of this constriction, and thus control the rate of damping. The smaller the constriction, the stiffer the suspension. Phew!....and you thought they just leaked oil didn't you?
Shock absorbers are basically oil pumps. A piston is attached to the end of the piston rod and works against hydraulic fluid or gas in the pressure tube. As the suspension travels up and down, the hydraulic fluid is forced through tiny holes, called orifices, inside the piston. However, these orifices let only a small amount of fluid through the piston. This slows down the piston, which in turn slows down spring and suspension movement.
The amount of resistance a shock absorber develops depends on the speed of the suspension and the number and size of the orifices in the piston. Because of this feature, shock absorbers adjust to road conditions.
As a result, shock absorbers reduce the rate of:
- Bounce
- Roll or sway
- Brake dive
- Acceleration squat

Shock absorbers work on the principle of fluid displacement on both the compression and extension cycle. A typical car or light truck will have more resistance during its extension cycle then its compression cycle. The compression cycle controls the motion of a vehicle's unsprung weight, while extension controls the heavier sprung weight.

Shok absorber, compession cycle

Compression cycle or Bump

During bump, the dampers and springs absorb the upward movement from cornering or road irregularities (the springs store some of it). Acceleration, braking or cornering in this state with also vary due to the various download rates, so it is important to have enough bump stiffness to be able to deal with uneven surfaces.
If there is too much damping, then it is effectively like running no suspension and any upward motion will be transmitted directly to the chassis. Over damping will result in a increase in the loads acting on the suspension and the tires. The handling will feel very harsh and hard, this will effect street driving in terms of comfort levels, so might not be desired for a daily drive.
This is undesirable in both under and over damping settings as it will reduce the handling of the car and will affect acceleration, braking and cornering loads.

At the piston, oil flows through the oil ports, and at slow piston speeds, the first stage bleeds come into play and restrict the amount of oil flow. This allows a controlled flow of fluid from chamber B to chamber A.
At high speeds, the limit of the second stage discs phases into the third stage orifice restrictions. Compression control, then, is the force that results from a higher pressure present in chamber B, which acts on the bottom of the piston and the piston rod area.



Shok absorber, exstension cycle

Extension cycle or Rebound

During rebound (following the bump compression phase) the dampers extend back to their original positions, using up the stored energy from the springs. The rebound stiffness needs to be set at a higher value then the bump setting as the stored energy is being released. If there is not effect damping on the rebound, the wheel will quickly return through the static level and start to bump again, with the bouncing effect unsettling the suspension with little control.

If there is too much rebound stiffness, then the wheel could hold longer in the wheel arch then needed, effectively losing contact with the road as the force to push the wheel back down is slower to respond to the changing surface level. This state is again far from ideal and it is best to make sure a good level is set for optimal tire/tire contact with the road.

As the piston and rod move upward toward the top of the pressure tube, the volume of chamber A is reduced and thus is at a higher pressure than chamber B. Because of this higher pressure, fluid flows down through the piston's 3-stage extension valve into chamber B.
However, the piston rod volume has been withdrawn from chamber B greatly increasing its volume. Thus the volume of fluid from chamber A is insufficient to fill chamber B. The pressure in the reserve tube is now greater than that in chamber B, forcing the compression intake valve to unseat. Fluid then flows from the reserve tube into chamber B, keeping the pressure tube full.
Extension control is a force present as a result of the higher pressure in chamber A, acting on the topside of the piston area.

Shock piston

Piston is attached to the end of the piston rod and works against hydraulic fluid in the pressure tube. As the suspension travels up and down, the hydraulic fluid is forced through tiny holes, called orifices, inside the piston. On the picture left is modern design for use in road car dampers.

Damper
http://www.carbibles.com/

The image above shows a typical modern coil-over-oil unit for long time in use with sports cars and motorcycles. This is an all-in-one system that carries both the spring and the shock absorber. The adjustable spring plate can be used to make the springs stiffer and looser, whilst the adjustable damping valve can be used to adjust the rebound damping of the shock absorber. More sophisticated units have adjustable compression damping as well as a remote reservoir. Whilst you don't typically get this level of engineering on car suspension, most motorbikes do have preload, rebound and spring tension adjustment, and this adjustments are normal in racing.

Shock absorbers work in conjunction with springs and stabilizers. Dampers provide a resistance for the spring to work against. The purpose of this is to prevent the spring from oscillating too much after hitting a bump. Ideally, the spring would contract over a bump, then expand back to its usual length straight afterwards. This requires a damper to be present as without one the spring would contract and expand continually after the bump, providing a rather horrible ride!
Modern F1 and racing shock absorbers can be regulated for bound and rebound but only before race. Shock absorber does not absorb impacts, but damp the motion of the car and oscillations of the spring after traveling over bumps and dips. When weight transfers from back/front and side/side (roll), or when you go over a bump on the road, the wheels/tires compress (bound), and when you are past the bump the wheel returns to equilibrium after the compression (rebound). That is basically the suspension movement.


Shock absorber in parts

Shock absorber

Bound is the rate at which the shock compresses.
Rebound is the rate at which the shocks decompress.

Bound damping affects how far and fast the suspension travels up. When the suspension is on its way back down, rebound damping affects how far and fast it goes the other way. More precisely, bound damping affects the compression rate, while rebound damping affects the expansion rate.

If you make your bound damping too stiff, your car will be skittish over rough surfaces. Rebound damping also affects your steering as you transition into and out of corners.

In general, stiffer absorbers are better suited for flat tracks with sharp turns. They prevent your springs from coiling too quickly, which decreases the dip you have when cornering and braking. Softer adjusted absorbers are better suited for winding, coiling tracks, but they'll also lengthen your braking distance.

So having bound at (for example) value of 9 and rebound at value of 2, make the car stiffer when absorbing a bump, compression is harder. The suspension on rebound will not return as fast. This suppresses weight transfer. Not very good because the tire won't make contact with the ground fast enough causing slip, that induce oversteer.

On the other hand, bound at 2 and rebound at 9, absorbs more bumps, but returns the shocks the opposite way to fast. You'll find the car literally jump over small bumps. This is also undesirable, as the tire is not in contact with the road. Bound at 7 and rebound at 6, keeps the tires stiff and return to the ground slower. Having bound at 6 and rebound at 7, will result in a good stiff compression of shocks and a higher bound means the tires return a bit faster to the ground but not too fast. This is the ideal configuration, a slightly higher rebound.


LINK (cu mai multe detalii si cu sistemul de amortizoare din F1) : http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/dampe...orber.html



TUNING

The goal you are seeking is getting your car to react to the ground, so you must remember that suspension tuning is actually making your tire work harder and more efficiently. Realize that a very soft suspension can give the tire too much motion to do its job, and a very stiff suspension can give too little.

An example of working the tires in a different way is a test we did last year with one of the North American Touring Cars. The track was smooth, and the suspension was plenty firm. In successive tests and adjustments, we slowly raised the rebound until good balance was achieved, but then a hot lap produced a nasty hopping motion.

Although the pavement was smooth, Touring Cars have a tendency to use curbing and berms to their greatest advantage. After firmly popping a berm, the car launched slightly and then hopped on landing. We realized that the hopping motion wasn't from spring bounce (which would mean it needed more rebound), but was actually from the tire's sidewall flexing because the suspension was firm enough that the only compliance to dissipate the energy came from the tire. A softer tweak on the rebound let the suspension and tires do their own jobs, permitting the car to stay on the ground and the driver on the throttle.

The initial setup was good for smooth driving, but when the berm variable was introduced, an adjustment needed to be made. By the way, the driver, Randy Pobst, won the North American Touring Car championship on those shocks.

The rule of thumb says that greater rebound damping loosens that end of the car, so a front-drive car that won't turn in can use some more rear rebound. Couple that with enough front rebound to slow body roll, but not so much as to cause inside wheel lift, and you are on your way.

A tail-happy rear driver could probably use more front rebound (to loosen the front) and less rear rebound (to reduce rotation) in the pursuit of balance.

Your other thumb tells you that if you can isolate handling responses to corner entry and corner exit, then you know which end to work on. In a decelerating corner entry situation, the rear suspension is extending and transferring its load to the front, so adjusting the rear rebound can control the transfer rate. On accelerating at the corner exit, the front is extending as the weight is transferred to the rear (usually more subtle unless you have big power or soft springs), so the front rebound will be adjusted.

Increasing compression damping will also affect how quickly the other end of the car accepts that weight transfer. Too little compression can overwork or literally stun the contact patch, while too much can give too little input and also start acting like added spring rate.

If you are allowed to change springs, do so and let them do their job and share the work. If your rules mandate that you can't change springs, consider more compression, but remember the other compromises involved. Ride quality and skittishness on intended and unintended bumps must be factored in.

Manufacturers can alter the different valving tools in the adjustment procedure to get their desired effect. Some use bleed holes in the rod to make the changes and therefore vary the amount of oil missing the piston valves. The clue for this style is if it adjusts both compression and rebound in one motion. Other manufacturers (usually more racing oriented) will adjust valving independently, either by making only rebound adjustable and using an optimized, preset compression for many situations, or with a double-adjustable unit that allows independent adjustments. This style usually effects changes with rod bleed and orifice and valve stack spring preload pressure, and therefore can make changes over the more possible piston speeds.

The days of the old 50/50 (same rebound damping as compression damping) and 90/10 drag race shocks have gone by. Today a 50/50 shock would have either way too much compression or, more likely, too little rebound. A 90/10 design just isn't paying attention to the evolution of suspension design and aerodynamics.

Today, street performance shocks have rebound damping rates that are two or more times greater than compression damping rates. The single action of adjusting bleed to affect bump and rebound is, by definition, a 50/50-style change, so the overall damping proportion will change as more bleed is dialed in. Independent adjustments allow the alteration of one characteristic while not affecting the other; this is therefore more precision and involves less compromise.

Rebound and sprung weight adjustments will cover 90-plus percent of most autocross and grassroots racers' needs. Making compression adjustments of the unsprung weight has traditionally been the realm of more hard-core race tuners, but as the stakes in the pro and national levels of autocross and club racing go up, so does the need for more tweaking and tuning ability.

As you can see (and probably know from firsthand experience), simply jumping into a car and counting on your heroic driving abilities to carry you to the front is the stuff of daydreams. Proper research and use of your suspension system is a safer spot to place your bets. Some of the most pivotal yet much misunderstood parts of your suspension package are the dampers.

If your goal is a favorite road or competition class, maximizing your dampers' capabilities will take you far and fast. Autocross is a great example-it is vehicle transitional control at the limit. A nationally-recognized autocrosser recently confirmed this by stating that suspension control is everything, and handling gains get you seconds whereas horsepower gains usually just get you to the next corner. Road or oval track racing is not as extreme in transition, but the vehicle speeds are higher and the necessity for control at the limit makes damper understanding critical.

Your car manufacturer probably didn't have you in mind when they chose the original dampers, so it is up to you to select and tune the best performance set for your unique needs.



mai multe info la http://www.se-r.net/suspension/shock_tech.html

alt link cu info multiple despre suspensie: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Suspension


Springs

Run as soft as practical for maximum grip

Hard:
Reduced Grip
Increased reaction
Soft:
Increased Grip
Decreased reaction
Soft Front, Hard rear = Oversteer
Hard Front, Soft rear = Understeer

Anti-Roll

Primary effect in slow turns

Front
Hard = Steering precision in slow turns, understeer, bad turn-in, more precise handling
Soft = Grip in slow turns, oversteer, better turn-in, less precise handling
Rear
Hard = Reduce Understeer in slow turns, oversteer, better turn-in
Soft = Reduce Oversteer in slow turns, understeer, worse turn-in
Large effect on relative L/R tire temp, Soft front/hard rear may balance

Run zero or low in wet conditions
Harder increases tire ware
Dampers (Shocks/Anti-shock)

Dampers work in speed rates (Fast (low numbers) and Slow (high numbers)) not Soft or Hard

Slow Dampers
Slow F+R = Slow weight transfer, Corner stability
Fast F+R = Fast weight transfer, Good grip
Slow F, Soft R = Corner entry+exit oversteer
Fast F, Hard R = Corner entry+exit understeer
Fast Dampers
Fast Rebound will normally need to be faster than Fast bound.
Slow F+R = Reduced bounce over bumps and curbs
Fast F+R = Good grip over bumps and curbs
Slow F, Soft R = Bump understeer
Fast F, Hard R = Bump oversteer

Bound/Rebound (Mainly for Slow dampers (weight shift)):

Front
Bound
Slow = Slower weight shift under Brake, Reduce oversteer on Turn-in
Fast = Faster weight shift under Brake, Better Turn-in response + Reduce understeer
Rebound
Slow = Slower Nose Lift under Accel
Fast = Faster Nose Lift under Accel
Rear
Bound
Slow = Slower weight shift under Accel
Fast = Faster weight shift under Accel
Rebound
Slow = Slower Nose Drop under Brake, Better Turn-in response + Reduce understeer
Fast = Faster Nose Drop under Brake, Reduce oversteer on Turn-in

Slow dampers
. Left turn Oversteer Right turn Oversteer
Corner Entry Increase FR Bump, Decrease RL Rebound Increase FL Bump, Decrease RR Rebound
Corner Exit Increase FL Rebound, Decrease RL Bump Increase FR Rebound, Decrease RR Bump
. Left turn Understeer Right turn Understeer
Corner Entry Decrease FR Bump, Increase RL Rebound Decrease FL Bump, Increase RR Rebound
Corner Exit Decrease FL Rebound, Increase RR Bump Decrease FR Rebound, Increase RL Bump
Differential

Power
High = Good propulsion out of corners, power understeer, Snap oversteer with overpower
Low = Poor propulsion out of corners, power oversteer, easier but more frequent traction loss with overpower
Coast
High = Stable braking, lift off understeer
Low = Unstable braking, lift off oversteer
Pre-load (low throttle range)
High = Nervous transitioning from braking/acceleration, easier to balance turns with throttle, harder to keep stable accelerating from slow turns, easy to spin under power, easier to break traction with rapid power lift-off
Low = Less responsive transitioning from braking/acceleration, easier to accelerate from slow turns but tendency to understeer

http://carsetup.wikidot.com/]]>


BRIEF HISTORY

In the early 1900's, cars still rode on carriage springs. After all, early drivers had bigger things to worry about than the quality of their ride - like keeping their cars rolling over the rocks and ruts that often passed for roads.
Pioneering vehicle manufacturers were faced early on with the challenges of enhancing driver control and passenger comfort. These early suspension designs found the front wheels attached to the axle using steering spindles and kingpins. This allowed the wheels to pivot while the axle remained stationary. Additionally, the up and down oscillation of the leaf spring was damped by device called a shock absorber.
shock absorber, history
Early shock absorbers

These first shock absorbers were simply two arms connected by a bolt with a friction disk between them. Resistance was adjusted by tightening or loosening the bolt.
As might be expected, the shocks were not very durable, and the performance left much to be desired. Over the years, shock absorbers have evolved into more sophisticated designs.


Despite what many people think, conventional shock absorbers do not support vehicle weight. Instead, the primary purpose of the shock absorber is to control spring and suspension movement. This is accomplished by turning the kinetic energy of suspension movement into thermal energy, or heat energy, to be dissipated through the hydraulic fluid.
You want more technical terms? Technically they are called dampers. Even more technically, they are velocity-sensitive hydraulic damping devices - in other words, the faster they move, the more resistance there is to that movement. They work in conjunction with the springs. The spring allows movement of the wheel to allow the energy in the road shock to be transformed into kinetic energy of the unsprung mass, whereupon it is dissipated by the damper and heat. The damper does this by forcing gas or oil through a constriction valve (a small hole). Adjustable shock absorbers allow you to change the size of this constriction, and thus control the rate of damping. The smaller the constriction, the stiffer the suspension. Phew!....and you thought they just leaked oil didn't you?
Shock absorbers are basically oil pumps. A piston is attached to the end of the piston rod and works against hydraulic fluid or gas in the pressure tube. As the suspension travels up and down, the hydraulic fluid is forced through tiny holes, called orifices, inside the piston. However, these orifices let only a small amount of fluid through the piston. This slows down the piston, which in turn slows down spring and suspension movement.
The amount of resistance a shock absorber develops depends on the speed of the suspension and the number and size of the orifices in the piston. Because of this feature, shock absorbers adjust to road conditions.
As a result, shock absorbers reduce the rate of:
- Bounce
- Roll or sway
- Brake dive
- Acceleration squat

Shock absorbers work on the principle of fluid displacement on both the compression and extension cycle. A typical car or light truck will have more resistance during its extension cycle then its compression cycle. The compression cycle controls the motion of a vehicle's unsprung weight, while extension controls the heavier sprung weight.

Shok absorber, compession cycle

Compression cycle or Bump

During bump, the dampers and springs absorb the upward movement from cornering or road irregularities (the springs store some of it). Acceleration, braking or cornering in this state with also vary due to the various download rates, so it is important to have enough bump stiffness to be able to deal with uneven surfaces.
If there is too much damping, then it is effectively like running no suspension and any upward motion will be transmitted directly to the chassis. Over damping will result in a increase in the loads acting on the suspension and the tires. The handling will feel very harsh and hard, this will effect street driving in terms of comfort levels, so might not be desired for a daily drive.
This is undesirable in both under and over damping settings as it will reduce the handling of the car and will affect acceleration, braking and cornering loads.

At the piston, oil flows through the oil ports, and at slow piston speeds, the first stage bleeds come into play and restrict the amount of oil flow. This allows a controlled flow of fluid from chamber B to chamber A.
At high speeds, the limit of the second stage discs phases into the third stage orifice restrictions. Compression control, then, is the force that results from a higher pressure present in chamber B, which acts on the bottom of the piston and the piston rod area.



Shok absorber, exstension cycle

Extension cycle or Rebound

During rebound (following the bump compression phase) the dampers extend back to their original positions, using up the stored energy from the springs. The rebound stiffness needs to be set at a higher value then the bump setting as the stored energy is being released. If there is not effect damping on the rebound, the wheel will quickly return through the static level and start to bump again, with the bouncing effect unsettling the suspension with little control.

If there is too much rebound stiffness, then the wheel could hold longer in the wheel arch then needed, effectively losing contact with the road as the force to push the wheel back down is slower to respond to the changing surface level. This state is again far from ideal and it is best to make sure a good level is set for optimal tire/tire contact with the road.

As the piston and rod move upward toward the top of the pressure tube, the volume of chamber A is reduced and thus is at a higher pressure than chamber B. Because of this higher pressure, fluid flows down through the piston's 3-stage extension valve into chamber B.
However, the piston rod volume has been withdrawn from chamber B greatly increasing its volume. Thus the volume of fluid from chamber A is insufficient to fill chamber B. The pressure in the reserve tube is now greater than that in chamber B, forcing the compression intake valve to unseat. Fluid then flows from the reserve tube into chamber B, keeping the pressure tube full.
Extension control is a force present as a result of the higher pressure in chamber A, acting on the topside of the piston area.

Shock piston

Piston is attached to the end of the piston rod and works against hydraulic fluid in the pressure tube. As the suspension travels up and down, the hydraulic fluid is forced through tiny holes, called orifices, inside the piston. On the picture left is modern design for use in road car dampers.

Damper
http://www.carbibles.com/

The image above shows a typical modern coil-over-oil unit for long time in use with sports cars and motorcycles. This is an all-in-one system that carries both the spring and the shock absorber. The adjustable spring plate can be used to make the springs stiffer and looser, whilst the adjustable damping valve can be used to adjust the rebound damping of the shock absorber. More sophisticated units have adjustable compression damping as well as a remote reservoir. Whilst you don't typically get this level of engineering on car suspension, most motorbikes do have preload, rebound and spring tension adjustment, and this adjustments are normal in racing.

Shock absorbers work in conjunction with springs and stabilizers. Dampers provide a resistance for the spring to work against. The purpose of this is to prevent the spring from oscillating too much after hitting a bump. Ideally, the spring would contract over a bump, then expand back to its usual length straight afterwards. This requires a damper to be present as without one the spring would contract and expand continually after the bump, providing a rather horrible ride!
Modern F1 and racing shock absorbers can be regulated for bound and rebound but only before race. Shock absorber does not absorb impacts, but damp the motion of the car and oscillations of the spring after traveling over bumps and dips. When weight transfers from back/front and side/side (roll), or when you go over a bump on the road, the wheels/tires compress (bound), and when you are past the bump the wheel returns to equilibrium after the compression (rebound). That is basically the suspension movement.


Shock absorber in parts

Shock absorber

Bound is the rate at which the shock compresses.
Rebound is the rate at which the shocks decompress.

Bound damping affects how far and fast the suspension travels up. When the suspension is on its way back down, rebound damping affects how far and fast it goes the other way. More precisely, bound damping affects the compression rate, while rebound damping affects the expansion rate.

If you make your bound damping too stiff, your car will be skittish over rough surfaces. Rebound damping also affects your steering as you transition into and out of corners.

In general, stiffer absorbers are better suited for flat tracks with sharp turns. They prevent your springs from coiling too quickly, which decreases the dip you have when cornering and braking. Softer adjusted absorbers are better suited for winding, coiling tracks, but they'll also lengthen your braking distance.

So having bound at (for example) value of 9 and rebound at value of 2, make the car stiffer when absorbing a bump, compression is harder. The suspension on rebound will not return as fast. This suppresses weight transfer. Not very good because the tire won't make contact with the ground fast enough causing slip, that induce oversteer.

On the other hand, bound at 2 and rebound at 9, absorbs more bumps, but returns the shocks the opposite way to fast. You'll find the car literally jump over small bumps. This is also undesirable, as the tire is not in contact with the road. Bound at 7 and rebound at 6, keeps the tires stiff and return to the ground slower. Having bound at 6 and rebound at 7, will result in a good stiff compression of shocks and a higher bound means the tires return a bit faster to the ground but not too fast. This is the ideal configuration, a slightly higher rebound.


LINK (cu mai multe detalii si cu sistemul de amortizoare din F1) : http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/dampe...orber.html



TUNING

The goal you are seeking is getting your car to react to the ground, so you must remember that suspension tuning is actually making your tire work harder and more efficiently. Realize that a very soft suspension can give the tire too much motion to do its job, and a very stiff suspension can give too little.

An example of working the tires in a different way is a test we did last year with one of the North American Touring Cars. The track was smooth, and the suspension was plenty firm. In successive tests and adjustments, we slowly raised the rebound until good balance was achieved, but then a hot lap produced a nasty hopping motion.

Although the pavement was smooth, Touring Cars have a tendency to use curbing and berms to their greatest advantage. After firmly popping a berm, the car launched slightly and then hopped on landing. We realized that the hopping motion wasn't from spring bounce (which would mean it needed more rebound), but was actually from the tire's sidewall flexing because the suspension was firm enough that the only compliance to dissipate the energy came from the tire. A softer tweak on the rebound let the suspension and tires do their own jobs, permitting the car to stay on the ground and the driver on the throttle.

The initial setup was good for smooth driving, but when the berm variable was introduced, an adjustment needed to be made. By the way, the driver, Randy Pobst, won the North American Touring Car championship on those shocks.

The rule of thumb says that greater rebound damping loosens that end of the car, so a front-drive car that won't turn in can use some more rear rebound. Couple that with enough front rebound to slow body roll, but not so much as to cause inside wheel lift, and you are on your way.

A tail-happy rear driver could probably use more front rebound (to loosen the front) and less rear rebound (to reduce rotation) in the pursuit of balance.

Your other thumb tells you that if you can isolate handling responses to corner entry and corner exit, then you know which end to work on. In a decelerating corner entry situation, the rear suspension is extending and transferring its load to the front, so adjusting the rear rebound can control the transfer rate. On accelerating at the corner exit, the front is extending as the weight is transferred to the rear (usually more subtle unless you have big power or soft springs), so the front rebound will be adjusted.

Increasing compression damping will also affect how quickly the other end of the car accepts that weight transfer. Too little compression can overwork or literally stun the contact patch, while too much can give too little input and also start acting like added spring rate.

If you are allowed to change springs, do so and let them do their job and share the work. If your rules mandate that you can't change springs, consider more compression, but remember the other compromises involved. Ride quality and skittishness on intended and unintended bumps must be factored in.

Manufacturers can alter the different valving tools in the adjustment procedure to get their desired effect. Some use bleed holes in the rod to make the changes and therefore vary the amount of oil missing the piston valves. The clue for this style is if it adjusts both compression and rebound in one motion. Other manufacturers (usually more racing oriented) will adjust valving independently, either by making only rebound adjustable and using an optimized, preset compression for many situations, or with a double-adjustable unit that allows independent adjustments. This style usually effects changes with rod bleed and orifice and valve stack spring preload pressure, and therefore can make changes over the more possible piston speeds.

The days of the old 50/50 (same rebound damping as compression damping) and 90/10 drag race shocks have gone by. Today a 50/50 shock would have either way too much compression or, more likely, too little rebound. A 90/10 design just isn't paying attention to the evolution of suspension design and aerodynamics.

Today, street performance shocks have rebound damping rates that are two or more times greater than compression damping rates. The single action of adjusting bleed to affect bump and rebound is, by definition, a 50/50-style change, so the overall damping proportion will change as more bleed is dialed in. Independent adjustments allow the alteration of one characteristic while not affecting the other; this is therefore more precision and involves less compromise.

Rebound and sprung weight adjustments will cover 90-plus percent of most autocross and grassroots racers' needs. Making compression adjustments of the unsprung weight has traditionally been the realm of more hard-core race tuners, but as the stakes in the pro and national levels of autocross and club racing go up, so does the need for more tweaking and tuning ability.

As you can see (and probably know from firsthand experience), simply jumping into a car and counting on your heroic driving abilities to carry you to the front is the stuff of daydreams. Proper research and use of your suspension system is a safer spot to place your bets. Some of the most pivotal yet much misunderstood parts of your suspension package are the dampers.

If your goal is a favorite road or competition class, maximizing your dampers' capabilities will take you far and fast. Autocross is a great example-it is vehicle transitional control at the limit. A nationally-recognized autocrosser recently confirmed this by stating that suspension control is everything, and handling gains get you seconds whereas horsepower gains usually just get you to the next corner. Road or oval track racing is not as extreme in transition, but the vehicle speeds are higher and the necessity for control at the limit makes damper understanding critical.

Your car manufacturer probably didn't have you in mind when they chose the original dampers, so it is up to you to select and tune the best performance set for your unique needs.



mai multe info la http://www.se-r.net/suspension/shock_tech.html

alt link cu info multiple despre suspensie: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Suspension


Springs

Run as soft as practical for maximum grip

Hard:
Reduced Grip
Increased reaction
Soft:
Increased Grip
Decreased reaction
Soft Front, Hard rear = Oversteer
Hard Front, Soft rear = Understeer

Anti-Roll

Primary effect in slow turns

Front
Hard = Steering precision in slow turns, understeer, bad turn-in, more precise handling
Soft = Grip in slow turns, oversteer, better turn-in, less precise handling
Rear
Hard = Reduce Understeer in slow turns, oversteer, better turn-in
Soft = Reduce Oversteer in slow turns, understeer, worse turn-in
Large effect on relative L/R tire temp, Soft front/hard rear may balance

Run zero or low in wet conditions
Harder increases tire ware
Dampers (Shocks/Anti-shock)

Dampers work in speed rates (Fast (low numbers) and Slow (high numbers)) not Soft or Hard

Slow Dampers
Slow F+R = Slow weight transfer, Corner stability
Fast F+R = Fast weight transfer, Good grip
Slow F, Soft R = Corner entry+exit oversteer
Fast F, Hard R = Corner entry+exit understeer
Fast Dampers
Fast Rebound will normally need to be faster than Fast bound.
Slow F+R = Reduced bounce over bumps and curbs
Fast F+R = Good grip over bumps and curbs
Slow F, Soft R = Bump understeer
Fast F, Hard R = Bump oversteer

Bound/Rebound (Mainly for Slow dampers (weight shift)):

Front
Bound
Slow = Slower weight shift under Brake, Reduce oversteer on Turn-in
Fast = Faster weight shift under Brake, Better Turn-in response + Reduce understeer
Rebound
Slow = Slower Nose Lift under Accel
Fast = Faster Nose Lift under Accel
Rear
Bound
Slow = Slower weight shift under Accel
Fast = Faster weight shift under Accel
Rebound
Slow = Slower Nose Drop under Brake, Better Turn-in response + Reduce understeer
Fast = Faster Nose Drop under Brake, Reduce oversteer on Turn-in

Slow dampers
. Left turn Oversteer Right turn Oversteer
Corner Entry Increase FR Bump, Decrease RL Rebound Increase FL Bump, Decrease RR Rebound
Corner Exit Increase FL Rebound, Decrease RL Bump Increase FR Rebound, Decrease RR Bump
. Left turn Understeer Right turn Understeer
Corner Entry Decrease FR Bump, Increase RL Rebound Decrease FL Bump, Increase RR Rebound
Corner Exit Decrease FL Rebound, Increase RR Bump Decrease FR Rebound, Increase RL Bump
Differential

Power
High = Good propulsion out of corners, power understeer, Snap oversteer with overpower
Low = Poor propulsion out of corners, power oversteer, easier but more frequent traction loss with overpower
Coast
High = Stable braking, lift off understeer
Low = Unstable braking, lift off oversteer
Pre-load (low throttle range)
High = Nervous transitioning from braking/acceleration, easier to balance turns with throttle, harder to keep stable accelerating from slow turns, easy to spin under power, easier to break traction with rapid power lift-off
Low = Less responsive transitioning from braking/acceleration, easier to accelerate from slow turns but tendency to understeer

http://carsetup.wikidot.com/]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Geometria-facuta-acasa--651 Wed, 08 May 2013 13:28:42 +0000 yulasinio]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Geometria-facuta-acasa--651
Pentru cei dintre voi care schimbati geometria destul de des si nu vreti sa dati bani de fiecare data, atunci poate ghidul asta o sa va ajute.

Rosu: sunt firele care se ataseaza pe niste boltari sau dupa cum se vede si in pozele de mai jos pe un cadru special.
Distanta marcata in Verde este foarte importanta iar ea se masoara din centrul jantei pana la ata. In schita de mai jos aceasta este de 100mm dar nu e batuta in cuie si poate fi cat doriti atata timp cat e la fel fata/spate.

Ajustare Toe(paralelism)
Pentru 0.00 Toe distantele marcate cu roz si albastru trebuie sa fie egale.

Albastru(mm) - Roz(mm) = __mm toe

Exemplu:
75.5mm - 76.0mm = -0.5mm toe in.

Pasi de urmat!
1. Masina trebuie sa fie parcata pe o suprafata perfect plana. NU ridicati masina pe cric pentru ca unghiul se schimba odata ce o lasati jos.
2. Incercati sa imobilizati volanul cu rotiile drepte.
3. Intindeti ata ca si in schema.
4. Ajustati capetele de bara pana obtineti distanta dorita, impingeti masina in fata si in spate dupa ajustare ca sa permiteti rotii sa se aseze.
5. Daca exitndeti capatul de bara veti obtine -toe (in), daca il scurtati veti obtine +toe (out).

Ajustare Camber(cadere)

Ajustarea camberului se poate face folosind un boloboc, plus o bara de aluminu care are lungimea jantei si un subler. Asezati parte de jos a bolobocului pe buza jante pana cand acesta este perfect vertical, apoi cu sublerul masurati dinstanta din buza superioara a jantei si pana la boloboc.

Acum camberul poate fi calculat dupa formula de mai jos:

inverse tan( __mm measured / _mm bar length ) = __ deg camber

Examplu:
inverse tan( 21.92mm / 457.2mm ) = 2.7 deg camber







  WheelAlignment.jpg (Size: 50.29 KB / Downloads: 99)

  diagram.bmp (Size: 321.64 KB / Downloads: 127)

  camber1.jpg (Size: 95.89 KB / Downloads: 92)

  camber2.jpg (Size: 106.1 KB / Downloads: 105) ]]>
Pentru cei dintre voi care schimbati geometria destul de des si nu vreti sa dati bani de fiecare data, atunci poate ghidul asta o sa va ajute.

Rosu: sunt firele care se ataseaza pe niste boltari sau dupa cum se vede si in pozele de mai jos pe un cadru special.
Distanta marcata in Verde este foarte importanta iar ea se masoara din centrul jantei pana la ata. In schita de mai jos aceasta este de 100mm dar nu e batuta in cuie si poate fi cat doriti atata timp cat e la fel fata/spate.

Ajustare Toe(paralelism)
Pentru 0.00 Toe distantele marcate cu roz si albastru trebuie sa fie egale.

Albastru(mm) - Roz(mm) = __mm toe

Exemplu:
75.5mm - 76.0mm = -0.5mm toe in.

Pasi de urmat!
1. Masina trebuie sa fie parcata pe o suprafata perfect plana. NU ridicati masina pe cric pentru ca unghiul se schimba odata ce o lasati jos.
2. Incercati sa imobilizati volanul cu rotiile drepte.
3. Intindeti ata ca si in schema.
4. Ajustati capetele de bara pana obtineti distanta dorita, impingeti masina in fata si in spate dupa ajustare ca sa permiteti rotii sa se aseze.
5. Daca exitndeti capatul de bara veti obtine -toe (in), daca il scurtati veti obtine +toe (out).

Ajustare Camber(cadere)

Ajustarea camberului se poate face folosind un boloboc, plus o bara de aluminu care are lungimea jantei si un subler. Asezati parte de jos a bolobocului pe buza jante pana cand acesta este perfect vertical, apoi cu sublerul masurati dinstanta din buza superioara a jantei si pana la boloboc.

Acum camberul poate fi calculat dupa formula de mai jos:

inverse tan( __mm measured / _mm bar length ) = __ deg camber

Examplu:
inverse tan( 21.92mm / 457.2mm ) = 2.7 deg camber







  WheelAlignment.jpg (Size: 50.29 KB / Downloads: 99)

  diagram.bmp (Size: 321.64 KB / Downloads: 127)

  camber1.jpg (Size: 95.89 KB / Downloads: 92)

  camber2.jpg (Size: 106.1 KB / Downloads: 105) ]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Ce-suspensii-sa-pun-pe-ctr-fn2 Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:23:50 +0000 doc_tyby]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Ce-suspensii-sa-pun-pe-ctr-fn2 https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Cu-si-despre-RTA-bucsi-brat-oscilant-spate Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:51:28 +0000 Vali_Lj]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Cu-si-despre-RTA-bucsi-brat-oscilant-spate
Articulatia spate de la Honda cu bratul oscilant este chiar speciala.
Bucsa mare a bratului oscilant este conceputa in asa fel incat roata sa se poata deplasa inainte si inapoi.

Bratul este sustinut in variata simplificata de alte 3 brate:
- bratul inferior ce preia sacina laterala principala
- bratul superior ce controleaza caderea
- bratul din fata ce controleaza convergenta




Partea speciala vine atunci cand franam. In momentul franarii anvelopa in timp ce prinde aderenta provoaca. o rotatie mai lenta decat miscarea masinii , astfel roate este trasa in spate comparativ cu masina.
Acum , bucsa bratului oscilant este astfel conceputa pentru a permite rotii sa se mute catre spate in momentul franarii. Probabil ca va ganditi ca este inutil si aiurea. Dar nu este chiar asa , in poza de mai sus priviti bratul inferior si cel fata. Cand bratul oscilant se deplaseaza inapoi este tinut de cele 2 brate care ii limiteaza zona de miscare. Bratul fata este mult mai scurt ca bratul inferior , astfel in momentul deplasarii inapoi sub sarcina franarii bratul fata se va inclina mai mult fata de cel inferior pur si simplu din cauza ca este mai scurt. Ceea ce inseamna ca fata bratului oscilant se va deplasa la interior adaugand convergenta rotilor.

Pentru a simplifica ce am spus mai sus , bucsa bratului oscilant este conceputa pentru a fi soft , astfel incat bratul oscilant sa se deplaseze in spate sub sarcina franarii , provocand bratul fata sa traga parte din fata a bratului oscilant la interior , adaugand convergenta, stabilizand spatele sub incidenta franarii.
Chiar mai inteligent este adaugarea de valoare a convergentei este pur si simplu legata de cat de mult este deplasata roata in spate , care este strict legata de forta cu care apesi frana si cat de multa aderenta are anvelopa. Deci daca o roata pierde ceva aderenta in comparatie cu cealalta , convergenta rotilor va fi diferita , ajutand la stabilizarea puntii spate. Foarte inteligenti aia mici .
Honda are mai multe patente brevetate asupra sistemului.

Daca veti inlocui bucsile standard cu unele de o compozitie mai dura , veti opri deplasarea rotii catre spate sub sarcina franarii care opreste schimbarea convergentei sub sarcina franarii. Fie ca vrei sau nu , totul depinde de tine. Dar daca o faci trebuie sa iei in considerare ce convergenta sa ai , fiindca ea va fi statica dupa schimbarea bucsii. Poti seta masina sa functioneze bine oricum, eu doar fac o observatie ca eliminarea acestui comportament de schimbare a convergentei sub sarcina franarii fara a tine cont de efectele asupra manevrabilitatii totale a masinii nu este neaparat un lucru bun pentru toata lumea.
Prea multi oameni au fost salvati de la derapaj de comportamentul standard atunci cand ajung sa franeze prea tarziu intr-un viraj , pentru a fi considereata inutila.

Din punctul meu de vedere ar trebui sa "cujetati" un pic daca vreti sa faceti pasul asta.
Pentru mine sistemul este un fel de unghi de fuga si convergenta variabil pentru a stabiliza spatele direct legat de sarcina/forta de franare.]]>
Articulatia spate de la Honda cu bratul oscilant este chiar speciala.
Bucsa mare a bratului oscilant este conceputa in asa fel incat roata sa se poata deplasa inainte si inapoi.

Bratul este sustinut in variata simplificata de alte 3 brate:
- bratul inferior ce preia sacina laterala principala
- bratul superior ce controleaza caderea
- bratul din fata ce controleaza convergenta




Partea speciala vine atunci cand franam. In momentul franarii anvelopa in timp ce prinde aderenta provoaca. o rotatie mai lenta decat miscarea masinii , astfel roate este trasa in spate comparativ cu masina.
Acum , bucsa bratului oscilant este astfel conceputa pentru a permite rotii sa se mute catre spate in momentul franarii. Probabil ca va ganditi ca este inutil si aiurea. Dar nu este chiar asa , in poza de mai sus priviti bratul inferior si cel fata. Cand bratul oscilant se deplaseaza inapoi este tinut de cele 2 brate care ii limiteaza zona de miscare. Bratul fata este mult mai scurt ca bratul inferior , astfel in momentul deplasarii inapoi sub sarcina franarii bratul fata se va inclina mai mult fata de cel inferior pur si simplu din cauza ca este mai scurt. Ceea ce inseamna ca fata bratului oscilant se va deplasa la interior adaugand convergenta rotilor.

Pentru a simplifica ce am spus mai sus , bucsa bratului oscilant este conceputa pentru a fi soft , astfel incat bratul oscilant sa se deplaseze in spate sub sarcina franarii , provocand bratul fata sa traga parte din fata a bratului oscilant la interior , adaugand convergenta, stabilizand spatele sub incidenta franarii.
Chiar mai inteligent este adaugarea de valoare a convergentei este pur si simplu legata de cat de mult este deplasata roata in spate , care este strict legata de forta cu care apesi frana si cat de multa aderenta are anvelopa. Deci daca o roata pierde ceva aderenta in comparatie cu cealalta , convergenta rotilor va fi diferita , ajutand la stabilizarea puntii spate. Foarte inteligenti aia mici .
Honda are mai multe patente brevetate asupra sistemului.

Daca veti inlocui bucsile standard cu unele de o compozitie mai dura , veti opri deplasarea rotii catre spate sub sarcina franarii care opreste schimbarea convergentei sub sarcina franarii. Fie ca vrei sau nu , totul depinde de tine. Dar daca o faci trebuie sa iei in considerare ce convergenta sa ai , fiindca ea va fi statica dupa schimbarea bucsii. Poti seta masina sa functioneze bine oricum, eu doar fac o observatie ca eliminarea acestui comportament de schimbare a convergentei sub sarcina franarii fara a tine cont de efectele asupra manevrabilitatii totale a masinii nu este neaparat un lucru bun pentru toata lumea.
Prea multi oameni au fost salvati de la derapaj de comportamentul standard atunci cand ajung sa franeze prea tarziu intr-un viraj , pentru a fi considereata inutila.

Din punctul meu de vedere ar trebui sa "cujetati" un pic daca vreti sa faceti pasul asta.
Pentru mine sistemul este un fel de unghi de fuga si convergenta variabil pentru a stabiliza spatele direct legat de sarcina/forta de franare.]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Imbunatatirea-raportului-de-bracare Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:50:55 +0000 Vali_Lj]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Imbunatatirea-raportului-de-bracare Daca in privinta feedbackului o mai poti fenta cu o pompa servo mai putin permisiva ( EK9 , DC2) si strangand "jocul" de la caseta in privinta raportului nu prea poti face . Caseta de pe EK9 nu o pot punte din cauza convesiei RHD to LHD ... Prin cautarile mele am gasit ca se poate pune pinionul de pe caseta DC2 in caseta de pe EK/EJ dar raportul "pare" asemanator si in plus beneficiezi de un plus de rotatie lock to lock.
Pinionul ce "imbunatateste" raportul de bracare care se gaseste la diversi vanzatori nu este decat un pinion de ITR.

Casetele EK9/DC2 sunt asemanatoare desi ce de ek9 este mai mica un pic diferenta in comportament si feedback facand-o sasiul masini.

Eu cred ca majoritatea masinilor au avut raportul de bracare a rotilor in functie de putere , comportamentul suspensiei/sasiului si tendinta masini subvitatoare/supraviratoare. Asa ca raportul este destul de bine calculat pentru fiecare generatie in parte.

Ce putem face pentru imbunatatirea lor? fara interventie directa asupra casetei ( inlocuita sau schimbat componente) un setup al suspensie/articulatie bun si mici imbunatatiri ce povesteam mai sus asta este parerea mea . Multi vad ca isi fac schimb direct cu cea de pe MR2 sau cei cu Eg cea de DC2

Idei? ]]> Daca in privinta feedbackului o mai poti fenta cu o pompa servo mai putin permisiva ( EK9 , DC2) si strangand "jocul" de la caseta in privinta raportului nu prea poti face . Caseta de pe EK9 nu o pot punte din cauza convesiei RHD to LHD ... Prin cautarile mele am gasit ca se poate pune pinionul de pe caseta DC2 in caseta de pe EK/EJ dar raportul "pare" asemanator si in plus beneficiezi de un plus de rotatie lock to lock.
Pinionul ce "imbunatateste" raportul de bracare care se gaseste la diversi vanzatori nu este decat un pinion de ITR.

Casetele EK9/DC2 sunt asemanatoare desi ce de ek9 este mai mica un pic diferenta in comportament si feedback facand-o sasiul masini.

Eu cred ca majoritatea masinilor au avut raportul de bracare a rotilor in functie de putere , comportamentul suspensiei/sasiului si tendinta masini subvitatoare/supraviratoare. Asa ca raportul este destul de bine calculat pentru fiecare generatie in parte.

Ce putem face pentru imbunatatirea lor? fara interventie directa asupra casetei ( inlocuita sau schimbat componente) un setup al suspensie/articulatie bun si mici imbunatatiri ce povesteam mai sus asta este parerea mea . Multi vad ca isi fac schimb direct cu cea de pe MR2 sau cei cu Eg cea de DC2

Idei? ]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Saibe-Spoon-la-un-pret-nebun Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:42:15 +0000 yulasinio]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Saibe-Spoon-la-un-pret-nebun

http://www.spoonsportseurope.net/product...ollar.html

PS. Spoon lucreaza la un prius ]]>

http://www.spoonsportseurope.net/product...ollar.html

PS. Spoon lucreaza la un prius ]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Front-Upper-Arm-Rear-Lower-Arm-And-Camber Thu, 06 Jan 2011 12:29:49 +0000 LauX_LauX_LauX]]> https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Front-Upper-Arm-Rear-Lower-Arm-And-Camber

Overview

Honda has a legendary reputation for making its vehicles fun-to-drive with precise steering and responsive suspension tuning with refined road manners. Precise and sharp handling performance also contributes to accident avoidance maneuverability - one of the key reasons Honda pays so much attention to handling performance. The 2006 Honda Civic chassis delivers higher levels of sportiness and ride comfort with improvements in three key areas - enhanced suspension geometry with larger wheels and tires, a longer wheelbase, and a new generation 4-channel anti-lock braking system (ABS). The changes add up to a new Civic that is even more responsive and sporty in demanding situations while also maintaining a smooth and comfortable ride. The potent Civic Si takes handling performance to a new extreme and demonstrates the potential of the Civic platform.
Chassis Summary
All Models

Control-Link MacPherson Strut Front Suspension with improved caster angle and toe-control dynamics
Multi-link compact double wishbone suspension with improved damper size and location
Wider track for sedan (+1.3 inches front/+2.5 inches rear)
Wider track for coupe (+1.1 inches front/+2.1 inches rear)
Advanced Logic 4-channel ABS System

Civic Si

High performance springs, dampers and sway bars (front and rear)
Larger 17-inch alloy wheels (+1 inch)
Michelin Pilot HX 215/45 R17 tires

(Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 high performance summer tire package available)

Large 11.8-inch ventilated front disc brakes, 10.2-inch solid rear disc brakes

Civic Hybrid

15-inch lightweight and aerodynamic alloy wheels
Low rolling resistance P195/65 R15 tires

Civic Sedan and Coupe

Larger 16-inch wheels on LX and EX (alloy on EX), 15-inch on DX
Larger P205/55 R16 tires on LX and EX, P195/65 R15 on DX
4-wheel disc brakes on EX
MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
The MacPherson strut front suspension incorporates new geometry with a high caster angle, and inversely wound springs for straight line stability, along with improved toe-control dynamics for sharp and responsive steering. To improve steering rigidity, and reduce friction, the steering gear box was mounted lower. Significant changes to steering angles, bushings, material rigidity, and spring and shock tuning result in amazingly linear suspension movement at the upper limit of vehicle dynamics and flatter cornering. When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion. To improve ride comfort, the compliance angle on the lower control arm was optimized to transmit less harshness. Further enhancements include less center offset with the wheel to minimize the potential for torque steer and shimmy (i.e. the tires' ability to transmit pavement irregularities into the suspension).




Honda engineers have also revisited the rear suspension to improve the Civic's handling precision and ride. The multi-link double wishbone rear suspension benefits from a new design that facilitates more rebound stroke and improved positioning of the damper. The improved rebound stroke allows the vehicle to soak up bumps and harsh road surfaces with quietness and ease, while also enhancing overall stability. The damper is mounted closer to the wheels for a more favorable 1.1:1 lever ratio between suspension movement and the distance that the damper actually travels (the previous ratio was 1.7:1). The more direct relationship means the dampers are able to provide better damping and control throughout the full range of suspension travel. These enhancements combined with sport-oriented spring and damper settings greatly increase the overall sporty feel of the vehicle and increase the feeling of coordination between the front and rear suspensions (a surprisingly uncommon trait in many vehicles).



Odata ce ati coborat masina mai jos decat stock, rotile nu vor mai avea un unghi corespunzator iar anvelopele se vor uza mai accentuat pe interior, pentru a regla unghiul de cadere trebuie schimbate bratele cu unele reglabile sau speciale pentru suspensia sport pe care o aveti. O alta solutie de reglare a unghiului de cadere ar fi schimbarea pivotului cu unul reglabil si lista contiuna...

Va rog sa ma ajutati sa dezvolt aceast Thread destul de importat in ceea ce priveste suspensia, unghiul respectiv traiectoria rotiilor.

Skunk2 Pro Series camber kits are designed as an affordable mid-level camber kit with 5 degrees of adjustment. The Pro Series kit features the same one-piece forged balljoint as the more expensive Pro Series Plus, but instead of polyurethane bushings, the Pro uses standard high quality rubber bushings. Ideal for race or street use.
Sold as a pair. Includes two (2) replacement front upper control arms.

Features
+/- 5 Degrees of adjustment
Cadmium plated for corrosion resistance
Prevents uneven tire wear




]]>

Overview

Honda has a legendary reputation for making its vehicles fun-to-drive with precise steering and responsive suspension tuning with refined road manners. Precise and sharp handling performance also contributes to accident avoidance maneuverability - one of the key reasons Honda pays so much attention to handling performance. The 2006 Honda Civic chassis delivers higher levels of sportiness and ride comfort with improvements in three key areas - enhanced suspension geometry with larger wheels and tires, a longer wheelbase, and a new generation 4-channel anti-lock braking system (ABS). The changes add up to a new Civic that is even more responsive and sporty in demanding situations while also maintaining a smooth and comfortable ride. The potent Civic Si takes handling performance to a new extreme and demonstrates the potential of the Civic platform.
Chassis Summary
All Models

Control-Link MacPherson Strut Front Suspension with improved caster angle and toe-control dynamics
Multi-link compact double wishbone suspension with improved damper size and location
Wider track for sedan (+1.3 inches front/+2.5 inches rear)
Wider track for coupe (+1.1 inches front/+2.1 inches rear)
Advanced Logic 4-channel ABS System

Civic Si

High performance springs, dampers and sway bars (front and rear)
Larger 17-inch alloy wheels (+1 inch)
Michelin Pilot HX 215/45 R17 tires

(Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 high performance summer tire package available)

Large 11.8-inch ventilated front disc brakes, 10.2-inch solid rear disc brakes

Civic Hybrid

15-inch lightweight and aerodynamic alloy wheels
Low rolling resistance P195/65 R15 tires

Civic Sedan and Coupe

Larger 16-inch wheels on LX and EX (alloy on EX), 15-inch on DX
Larger P205/55 R16 tires on LX and EX, P195/65 R15 on DX
4-wheel disc brakes on EX
MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
The MacPherson strut front suspension incorporates new geometry with a high caster angle, and inversely wound springs for straight line stability, along with improved toe-control dynamics for sharp and responsive steering. To improve steering rigidity, and reduce friction, the steering gear box was mounted lower. Significant changes to steering angles, bushings, material rigidity, and spring and shock tuning result in amazingly linear suspension movement at the upper limit of vehicle dynamics and flatter cornering. When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion. To improve ride comfort, the compliance angle on the lower control arm was optimized to transmit less harshness. Further enhancements include less center offset with the wheel to minimize the potential for torque steer and shimmy (i.e. the tires' ability to transmit pavement irregularities into the suspension).




Honda engineers have also revisited the rear suspension to improve the Civic's handling precision and ride. The multi-link double wishbone rear suspension benefits from a new design that facilitates more rebound stroke and improved positioning of the damper. The improved rebound stroke allows the vehicle to soak up bumps and harsh road surfaces with quietness and ease, while also enhancing overall stability. The damper is mounted closer to the wheels for a more favorable 1.1:1 lever ratio between suspension movement and the distance that the damper actually travels (the previous ratio was 1.7:1). The more direct relationship means the dampers are able to provide better damping and control throughout the full range of suspension travel. These enhancements combined with sport-oriented spring and damper settings greatly increase the overall sporty feel of the vehicle and increase the feeling of coordination between the front and rear suspensions (a surprisingly uncommon trait in many vehicles).



Odata ce ati coborat masina mai jos decat stock, rotile nu vor mai avea un unghi corespunzator iar anvelopele se vor uza mai accentuat pe interior, pentru a regla unghiul de cadere trebuie schimbate bratele cu unele reglabile sau speciale pentru suspensia sport pe care o aveti. O alta solutie de reglare a unghiului de cadere ar fi schimbarea pivotului cu unul reglabil si lista contiuna...

Va rog sa ma ajutati sa dezvolt aceast Thread destul de importat in ceea ce priveste suspensia, unghiul respectiv traiectoria rotiilor.

Skunk2 Pro Series camber kits are designed as an affordable mid-level camber kit with 5 degrees of adjustment. The Pro Series kit features the same one-piece forged balljoint as the more expensive Pro Series Plus, but instead of polyurethane bushings, the Pro uses standard high quality rubber bushings. Ideal for race or street use.
Sold as a pair. Includes two (2) replacement front upper control arms.

Features
+/- 5 Degrees of adjustment
Cadmium plated for corrosion resistance
Prevents uneven tire wear




]]>