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			<title><![CDATA[Pads characteristics thread]]></title>
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			<pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2019 15:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
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			<description><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?InfoID=105&amp;ProductID=3042" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">https://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?InfoI...uctID=3042</a><br />
<br />
descrierea capului de tabel:<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">? A<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">verage friction: </span>Overall mean friction coefficient calculated over the complete test cycle. (Fig 1.)<br />
<br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">"Bite": </span>Initial friction at the start of the stop. <br />
</span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rating 1 to 5. (5 = Good, 1 = Poor) (Fig 1.)<br />
</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Fade: </span>Drop off in friction coefficient from stop to stop when used for very hard braking. Calculated from last 4 stops on test plot on a scale of <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">1 to 5. (5 = No significant fade). (Fig 1.)<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Average pad wear:</span> A comparative rating of pad wear across all conditions.<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Rated on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 1 = best).<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Plot Shape: </span>The shape of the friction plot during a brake </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">application. High initial "bite" with friction gradually decreasing through the stop as speed drops off is considered to be the easiest to control (most "user friendly"). A climbing friction level through the stop is considered the most difficult to control (least "user friendly") although some pads with this characteristic are extremely popular due to their overall high friction level and fade resistance. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Assessed types 5 to 1. (Fig 2.)</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> <br />
</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Comfort / Noise:</span> Does the pad promote judder or brake squeal ?. Important on road car applications but not usually a </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">consideration for racing use.<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Disc Life:</span> Does the pad promote high disc wear or cracking?. Especially important on road car applications. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rated on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 5 = best).</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> <br />
</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Effective Temperature Range: </span>The temperature range within which the pad material can be considered effective should be used as a comparative guide only as temperature measurement techniques vary significantly and the true picture must include the energy level (quantity of heat). Pad temperatures are affected by disc mass and cooling. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rated 1 to 5 </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">(1 = 200°C / 2 = 350°C / 3 = 500°C / 4 = 650°C and 5 = 800°C).<br />
</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Suitable Area of Use:</span> The areas for which the pad material is considered most suitable. This is a subjective assessment </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">relying on the pooled experience of AP Racing engineers over many years. Contact AP Racing Technical Section for guidance.<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Pad Material Performance:</span> The table below provides the ratings given for the characteristics described on the this page. The table results are AP Racing’s own, determined from our dynamometer testing and may differ from manufacturers own specifications.<br />
<br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Y</span> denotes suitable, X denotes not suitable</span></span></span><br /><!-- start: postbit_attachments_attachment -->
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?InfoID=105&amp;ProductID=3042" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">https://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?InfoI...uctID=3042</a><br />
<br />
descrierea capului de tabel:<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">? A<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">verage friction: </span>Overall mean friction coefficient calculated over the complete test cycle. (Fig 1.)<br />
<br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">"Bite": </span>Initial friction at the start of the stop. <br />
</span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rating 1 to 5. (5 = Good, 1 = Poor) (Fig 1.)<br />
</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Fade: </span>Drop off in friction coefficient from stop to stop when used for very hard braking. Calculated from last 4 stops on test plot on a scale of <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">1 to 5. (5 = No significant fade). (Fig 1.)<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Average pad wear:</span> A comparative rating of pad wear across all conditions.<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Rated on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 1 = best).<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Plot Shape: </span>The shape of the friction plot during a brake </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">application. High initial "bite" with friction gradually decreasing through the stop as speed drops off is considered to be the easiest to control (most "user friendly"). A climbing friction level through the stop is considered the most difficult to control (least "user friendly") although some pads with this characteristic are extremely popular due to their overall high friction level and fade resistance. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Assessed types 5 to 1. (Fig 2.)</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> <br />
</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Comfort / Noise:</span> Does the pad promote judder or brake squeal ?. Important on road car applications but not usually a </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">consideration for racing use.<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Disc Life:</span> Does the pad promote high disc wear or cracking?. Especially important on road car applications. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rated on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 5 = best).</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> <br />
</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Effective Temperature Range: </span>The temperature range within which the pad material can be considered effective should be used as a comparative guide only as temperature measurement techniques vary significantly and the true picture must include the energy level (quantity of heat). Pad temperatures are affected by disc mass and cooling. </span><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">Rated 1 to 5 </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">(1 = 200°C / 2 = 350°C / 3 = 500°C / 4 = 650°C and 5 = 800°C).<br />
</span></span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Suitable Area of Use:</span> The areas for which the pad material is considered most suitable. This is a subjective assessment </span><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size">relying on the pooled experience of AP Racing engineers over many years. Contact AP Racing Technical Section for guidance.<br />
</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #000000;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-small;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"><br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Pad Material Performance:</span> The table below provides the ratings given for the characteristics described on the this page. The table results are AP Racing’s own, determined from our dynamometer testing and may differ from manufacturers own specifications.<br />
<br />
? <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Y</span> denotes suitable, X denotes not suitable</span></span></span><br /><!-- start: postbit_attachments_attachment -->
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			<title><![CDATA[Ovalizarea discurilor, doar un mit]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Ovalizarea-discurilor-doar-un-mit</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2015 13:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
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			<description><![CDATA[<tag><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><b>Titlu</b>: The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:45px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'Show'; }"><br />
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<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System</span><br />
by Carroll Smith<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Myth # 1 – BRAKE JUDDER AND VIBRATION IS CAUSED BY DISCS THAT HAVE BEEN WARPED FROM EXESSIVE HEAT.</span><br />
<br />
The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.<br />
When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.<br />
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure1.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 1</a>) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure2.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 2</a>) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure3.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 3</a>) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure4.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 4</a>)<br />
In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.<br />
In order to understand what is happening here, we will briefly investigate the nature of the stopping power of the disc brake system.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">THE NATURE OF BRAKING FRICTION</span><br />
<br />
Friction is the mechanism that converts dynamic energy into heat. Just as there are two sorts of friction between the tire and the road surface (mechanical gripping of road surface irregularities by the elastic tire compound and transient molecular adhesion between the rubber and the road in which rubber is transferred to the road surface), so there are two very different sorts of braking friction - abrasive friction and adherent friction. Abrasive friction involves the breaking of the crystalline bonds of both the pad material and the cast iron of the disc. The breaking of these bonds generates the heat of friction. In abrasive friction, the bonds between crystals of the pad material (and, to a lesser extent, the disc material) are permanently broken. The harder material wears the softer away (hopefully the disc wears the pad). Pads that function primarily by abrasion have a high wear rate and tend to fade at high temperatures. When these pads reach their effective temperature limit, they will transfer pad material onto the disc face in a random and uneven pattern. It is this "pick up" on the disc face that both causes the thickness variation measured by the technicians and the roughness or vibration under the brakes reported by the drivers.<br />
With adherent friction, some of the pad material diffuses across the interface between the pad and the disc and forms a very thin, uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the disc. As the friction surfaces of both disc and pad then comprise basically the same material, material can now cross the interface in both directions and the bonds break and reform. In fact, with adherent friction between pad and disc, the bonds between pad material and the deposits on the disc are transient in nature - they are continually being broken and some of them are continually reforming.<br />
There is no such thing as pure abrasive or pure adherent friction in braking. With many contemporary pad formulas, the pad material must be abrasive enough to keep the disc surface smooth and clean. As the material can cross the interface, the layer on the disc is constantly renewed and kept uniform - again until the temperature limit of the pad has been exceeded or if the pad and the disc have not been bedded-in completely or properly. In the latter case, if a uniform layer of pad material transferred onto the disc face has not been established during bedding or break-in, spot or uncontrolled transfer of the material can occur when operating at high temperatures. The organic and semi-metallic pads of the past were more abrasive than adherent and were severely temperature limited. All of the current generation of "metallic carbon", racing pads utilize mainly adherent technology as do many of the high end street car pads and they are temperature stable over a much higher range. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch and the ultra high temperature racing pads are ineffective at the low temperatures typically experienced in street use.<br />
Therefore - there is no such thing as an ideal "all around" brake pad. The friction material that is quiet and functions well at relatively low temperatures around town will not stop the car that is driven hard. If you attempt to drive many cars hard with the OEM pads, you will experience pad fade, friction material transfer and fluid boiling - end of discussion. The true racing pad, used under normal conditions will be noisy and will not work well at low temperatures around town.<br />
Ideally, in order to avoid either putting up with squealing brakes that will not stop the car well around town or with pad fade on the track or coming down the mountain at speed, we should change pads before indulging in vigorous automotive exercise. No one does. The question remains, what pads should be used in high performance street cars - relatively low temperature street pads or high temperature race pads? Strangely enough, in my opinion, the answer is a high performance street pad with good low temperature characteristics. The reason is simple: If we are driving really hard and begin to run into trouble, either with pad fade or boiling fluid (or both), the condition(s) comes on gradually enough to allow us to simply modify our driving style to compensate. On the other hand, should an emergency occur when the brakes are<br />
cold, the high temperature pad is simply not going to stop the car. As an example, during the mid 1960s, those of us at Shelby American did not drive GT 350 or GT 500 Mustangs as company cars simply because they were equipped with Raybestos M-19 racing pads and none of our wives could push on the brake pedal hard enough to stop the car in normal driving.<br />
Regardless of pad composition, if both disc and pad are not properly broken in, material transfer between the two materials can take place in a random fashion - resulting is uneven deposits and vibration under braking. Similarly, even if the brakes are properly broken, if, when they are very hot or following a single long stop from high speed, the brakes are kept applied after the vehicle comes to a complete stop it is possible to leave a telltale deposit behind that looks like the outline of a pad. This kind of deposit is called pad imprinting and looks like the pad was inked for printing like a stamp and then set on the disc face. It is possible to see the perfect outline of the pad on the disc. (FIGURE 5)<br />
It gets worse. Cast iron is an alloy of iron and silicon in solution interspersed with particles of carbon. At elevated temperatures, inclusions of carbides begin to form in the matrix. In the case of the brake disk, any uneven deposits - standing proud of the disc surface - become hotter than the surrounding metal. Every time that the leading edge of one of the deposits rotates into contact with the pad, the local temperature increases. When this local temperature reaches around 1200 or 1300 degrees F. the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite (an iron carbide in which three atoms of iron combine with one atom of carbon). Cementite is very hard, very abrasive and is a poor heat sink. If severe use continues the system will enter a self-defeating spiral - the amount and depth of the cementite increases with increasing temperature and so does the brake roughness. Drat!<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">PREVENTION</span><br />
<br />
There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.<br />
In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7<br />
to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.<br />
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at. Hence, the higher temperature material can establish its layer completely and uniformly on the disc surface.<br />
Fortunately the procedure is also good for the discs and will relieve any residual thermal stresses left over from the casting process (all discs should be thermally stress relieved as one of the last manufacturing processes) and will transfer the smooth layer of pad material onto the disc. If possible, new discs should be bedded with used pads of the same compound that will be used going forward. Again, heat should be put into the system gradually - increasingly hard stops with cool off time in between. Part of the idea is to avoid prolonged contact between pad and disc. With abrasive pads (which should not be used on high performance cars) the disc can be considered bedded when the friction surfaces have attained an even blue color. With the carbon metallic type pads, bedding is complete when the friction surfaces of the disc are a consistent gray or black. In any case, the discoloration of a completely broken in disc will be complete and uniform.<br />
Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.<br />
The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.<br />
Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.<br />
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.<br />
The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.<br />
Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.<br />
<br />
</div>
</div>
</div>
</tag><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">Source</a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<tag><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><b>Titlu</b>: The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:45px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'Show'; }"><br />
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<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System</span><br />
by Carroll Smith<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Myth # 1 – BRAKE JUDDER AND VIBRATION IS CAUSED BY DISCS THAT HAVE BEEN WARPED FROM EXESSIVE HEAT.</span><br />
<br />
The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.<br />
When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.<br />
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure1.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 1</a>) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure2.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 2</a>) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure3.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 3</a>) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/images/tech-white-paper-images/figure4.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">FIGURE 4</a>)<br />
In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.<br />
In order to understand what is happening here, we will briefly investigate the nature of the stopping power of the disc brake system.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">THE NATURE OF BRAKING FRICTION</span><br />
<br />
Friction is the mechanism that converts dynamic energy into heat. Just as there are two sorts of friction between the tire and the road surface (mechanical gripping of road surface irregularities by the elastic tire compound and transient molecular adhesion between the rubber and the road in which rubber is transferred to the road surface), so there are two very different sorts of braking friction - abrasive friction and adherent friction. Abrasive friction involves the breaking of the crystalline bonds of both the pad material and the cast iron of the disc. The breaking of these bonds generates the heat of friction. In abrasive friction, the bonds between crystals of the pad material (and, to a lesser extent, the disc material) are permanently broken. The harder material wears the softer away (hopefully the disc wears the pad). Pads that function primarily by abrasion have a high wear rate and tend to fade at high temperatures. When these pads reach their effective temperature limit, they will transfer pad material onto the disc face in a random and uneven pattern. It is this "pick up" on the disc face that both causes the thickness variation measured by the technicians and the roughness or vibration under the brakes reported by the drivers.<br />
With adherent friction, some of the pad material diffuses across the interface between the pad and the disc and forms a very thin, uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the disc. As the friction surfaces of both disc and pad then comprise basically the same material, material can now cross the interface in both directions and the bonds break and reform. In fact, with adherent friction between pad and disc, the bonds between pad material and the deposits on the disc are transient in nature - they are continually being broken and some of them are continually reforming.<br />
There is no such thing as pure abrasive or pure adherent friction in braking. With many contemporary pad formulas, the pad material must be abrasive enough to keep the disc surface smooth and clean. As the material can cross the interface, the layer on the disc is constantly renewed and kept uniform - again until the temperature limit of the pad has been exceeded or if the pad and the disc have not been bedded-in completely or properly. In the latter case, if a uniform layer of pad material transferred onto the disc face has not been established during bedding or break-in, spot or uncontrolled transfer of the material can occur when operating at high temperatures. The organic and semi-metallic pads of the past were more abrasive than adherent and were severely temperature limited. All of the current generation of "metallic carbon", racing pads utilize mainly adherent technology as do many of the high end street car pads and they are temperature stable over a much higher range. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch and the ultra high temperature racing pads are ineffective at the low temperatures typically experienced in street use.<br />
Therefore - there is no such thing as an ideal "all around" brake pad. The friction material that is quiet and functions well at relatively low temperatures around town will not stop the car that is driven hard. If you attempt to drive many cars hard with the OEM pads, you will experience pad fade, friction material transfer and fluid boiling - end of discussion. The true racing pad, used under normal conditions will be noisy and will not work well at low temperatures around town.<br />
Ideally, in order to avoid either putting up with squealing brakes that will not stop the car well around town or with pad fade on the track or coming down the mountain at speed, we should change pads before indulging in vigorous automotive exercise. No one does. The question remains, what pads should be used in high performance street cars - relatively low temperature street pads or high temperature race pads? Strangely enough, in my opinion, the answer is a high performance street pad with good low temperature characteristics. The reason is simple: If we are driving really hard and begin to run into trouble, either with pad fade or boiling fluid (or both), the condition(s) comes on gradually enough to allow us to simply modify our driving style to compensate. On the other hand, should an emergency occur when the brakes are<br />
cold, the high temperature pad is simply not going to stop the car. As an example, during the mid 1960s, those of us at Shelby American did not drive GT 350 or GT 500 Mustangs as company cars simply because they were equipped with Raybestos M-19 racing pads and none of our wives could push on the brake pedal hard enough to stop the car in normal driving.<br />
Regardless of pad composition, if both disc and pad are not properly broken in, material transfer between the two materials can take place in a random fashion - resulting is uneven deposits and vibration under braking. Similarly, even if the brakes are properly broken, if, when they are very hot or following a single long stop from high speed, the brakes are kept applied after the vehicle comes to a complete stop it is possible to leave a telltale deposit behind that looks like the outline of a pad. This kind of deposit is called pad imprinting and looks like the pad was inked for printing like a stamp and then set on the disc face. It is possible to see the perfect outline of the pad on the disc. (FIGURE 5)<br />
It gets worse. Cast iron is an alloy of iron and silicon in solution interspersed with particles of carbon. At elevated temperatures, inclusions of carbides begin to form in the matrix. In the case of the brake disk, any uneven deposits - standing proud of the disc surface - become hotter than the surrounding metal. Every time that the leading edge of one of the deposits rotates into contact with the pad, the local temperature increases. When this local temperature reaches around 1200 or 1300 degrees F. the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite (an iron carbide in which three atoms of iron combine with one atom of carbon). Cementite is very hard, very abrasive and is a poor heat sink. If severe use continues the system will enter a self-defeating spiral - the amount and depth of the cementite increases with increasing temperature and so does the brake roughness. Drat!<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">PREVENTION</span><br />
<br />
There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.<br />
In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7<br />
to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.<br />
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at. Hence, the higher temperature material can establish its layer completely and uniformly on the disc surface.<br />
Fortunately the procedure is also good for the discs and will relieve any residual thermal stresses left over from the casting process (all discs should be thermally stress relieved as one of the last manufacturing processes) and will transfer the smooth layer of pad material onto the disc. If possible, new discs should be bedded with used pads of the same compound that will be used going forward. Again, heat should be put into the system gradually - increasingly hard stops with cool off time in between. Part of the idea is to avoid prolonged contact between pad and disc. With abrasive pads (which should not be used on high performance cars) the disc can be considered bedded when the friction surfaces have attained an even blue color. With the carbon metallic type pads, bedding is complete when the friction surfaces of the disc are a consistent gray or black. In any case, the discoloration of a completely broken in disc will be complete and uniform.<br />
Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.<br />
The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.<br />
Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.<br />
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.<br />
The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.<br />
Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.<br />
<br />
</div>
</div>
</div>
</tag><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">Source</a>]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Upgrade frane fara sa iti vinzi un rinichi !]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Upgrade-frane-fara-sa-iti-vinzi-un-rinichi</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=64">Toyboy</a>]]></dc:creator>
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			<description><![CDATA[Acest topic este dedicat tuturor modelelor de Honda cu frane OEM 242mm: CRX, Civic 4G, cu, sau fara numar <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Icon_biggrin" title="Icon_biggrin" class="smilie smilie_33" /><br />
<br />
va trebuii sa folositi etrierii de 282mm a.k.a : 17CL15VN de la Nissin care vin pe urmatoarele modele : ITR, CRV, HRV sau corespondentul de la Lucas, mai des intalnit pe Rover H23 si Accorduri cu cilindree &gt; 2.0 <br />
se vor folosi placutele de etrierului respectiv !<br />
<br />
si discurile de frana de 262.3mm de reno (nu stiu modelul) cu gaura de centrare de 61mm la fel ca la majoritatea hondelor.<br />
<br />
Singura modificare al acestui combo o sufera portetrierul care trebuie prelucrat la strung cca 1mm dupa cum se apreciaza in poze ! <br />
<br />
Combo-ul intra pe 90% din jantele de 15" <br />
<br />
Daca vreti un feeling mai old school la pedala si aveti cu ce <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Icon_biggrin" title="Icon_biggrin" class="smilie smilie_33" /> va recomand sa supliniti servo-ul cu ceva placuta/distantier, o gasiti pe ebay <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt="Icon_wink" title="Icon_wink" class="smilie smilie_48" /><br />
<br />
Multa bafta, LAȘILOR !<br />
<br />
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<!-- end: postbit_attachments_attachment -->]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Acest topic este dedicat tuturor modelelor de Honda cu frane OEM 242mm: CRX, Civic 4G, cu, sau fara numar <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Icon_biggrin" title="Icon_biggrin" class="smilie smilie_33" /><br />
<br />
va trebuii sa folositi etrierii de 282mm a.k.a : 17CL15VN de la Nissin care vin pe urmatoarele modele : ITR, CRV, HRV sau corespondentul de la Lucas, mai des intalnit pe Rover H23 si Accorduri cu cilindree &gt; 2.0 <br />
se vor folosi placutele de etrierului respectiv !<br />
<br />
si discurile de frana de 262.3mm de reno (nu stiu modelul) cu gaura de centrare de 61mm la fel ca la majoritatea hondelor.<br />
<br />
Singura modificare al acestui combo o sufera portetrierul care trebuie prelucrat la strung cca 1mm dupa cum se apreciaza in poze ! <br />
<br />
Combo-ul intra pe 90% din jantele de 15" <br />
<br />
Daca vreti un feeling mai old school la pedala si aveti cu ce <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Icon_biggrin" title="Icon_biggrin" class="smilie smilie_33" /> va recomand sa supliniti servo-ul cu ceva placuta/distantier, o gasiti pe ebay <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt="Icon_wink" title="Icon_wink" class="smilie smilie_48" /><br />
<br />
Multa bafta, LAȘILOR !<br />
<br />
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			<title><![CDATA[Conversie Frane]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Conversie-Frane</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=46">LauX_LauX_LauX</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Conversie-Frane</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">5 Lug Conversion</span><br />
<br />
The first, and often most challenging part of this upgrade is to source the necessary parts. Considering that thee weren't that many Type R's made, there is even less wrecked ones being parted out. Expect to pay between &#36;1500.00 and &#36;2000.00 for the complete suspension and wheels/tires from a wrecked Type R. Sometimes you can find partial suspensions for less, as I did. When doing this modification to your Civic, it pays to be patient. Five lug conversion packages aern't avaliable that often. So when you do find one, be ready to move fast.<br />
<br />
You can piece this entire assembly together using new, OEM parts if you wish. However you cannot do this without spending a LOT more money compared to getting it off a Type R. The reason why it is much more expensive to buy the necessary components for a five lug conversion is in the rear suspension. Although the physical trailing arm is identical to that of a normal Integra, the spindle is different.<br />
<br />
The track on a Type R is 10mm wider than that any other Integra. This results in the wheels being pushed out another 5mm on all corners compared to a non Type R. This means the rear spindle needs to be 5mm longer as well. Unfortunetly for us, Acura of America will not sell the spindle by itself (They do in Japan). So you would have to buy the entire rear trailing arm assembly to get the proper spindle. This drives the cost way up. Therefore, it is much less expensive to simply get the parts off a wrecked Type R.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">What you will need</span><br />
<br />
(Pics are clickable)<br />
First the front. The minimum you will need is the front knuckle/hub assembly from a Type R. Hopefully it will come with the calipers and rotors, as mine did. If not, you can use the calipers from a 91-97 Accord Wagon and rotors from a 97+ Prelude. Note: You can reuse your Civic front upper control arms if necessary. However if the Type R upper control arms are included, you may want to use those for the stiffer/newer bushings.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/comparison1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: comparison1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/knucklerear1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: knucklerear1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Front Comparison Nice shot of front caliper<br />
<br />
For the rear you will need the trailing arm assembly from a Type R. This should include the rear calipers and rotors as well. The rear caliper is the same as a GSR caliper. The main difference with the Type R calipers are the caliper brackets, they space the calipers .75" farther out to clear the 10.25" rotors. It is unknow if the rotor is similar to any other model Honda.<br />
 <br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/arm1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: arm1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Rear Trailing arm<br />
<br />
If you are changing from rear drums you will also need new parking brake cables (from any Integra) and new brake lines. However if you already have 4 wheel disk brakes, you should be able to use your old brake lines and e brake cables. I installed Steel Braided brake lines as part of the change over process.<br />
<br />
You will also need a one inch master cylendar &amp; booster from any 94+ Integra as well as a '4040' 4 wheel disk proportioning valve. These can be had from any 92-95 Civic Si or a 92-93 Integra. Be sure to get the one that has '4040' stamped on it. The '3030' proportioning valve is for a front disk, rear drum setup and will not work safely on a Civic with 4 wheel disk brakes. <br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The Process</span><br />
<br />
First you'll need to remove the old suspension components. Start by draing the old Master cylinder. This is a lot easier if you have an old turkey baster to suck the brake fluid out with. You can see the old 13/16" master cylinder in this picture.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/engine1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: engine1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Beautiful!<br />
<br />
To break down the front suspension you want to start by removing the axle nuts. This is not as easy as you would think. An impact gun makes this much easier.<br />
<br />
Once the axle nuts have been removed, remove the brake line from the calipers. If you are replcing the brake lines along with the knuckles, you'll need to remove the brake lines from where they attach to the chassis hardlines. Then remove the three castle nuts which secure the knuckle to the car. Once you have done this you can break the ball joints loose and remove the knuckles.<br />
<br />
For the rear, remove the brake lines first. Then go inside the car and detach the parking brake cables from the parking brake lever. Pull the cables out of the cabin from underneath the car. This involves removing the exhaust and rear heat shields. There are are three 10mm bolts per side which secure the e brake cables as they snake back to the corners. Remove those as well.<br />
<br />
At this point you are ready to remove the trailing arm assembly. Simply unblolt it from the lower comtrol arm, the upper control arm, the frame, and the tie rod. Once you do this the whole assembly will fall off the car.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/tearout1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: tearout1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Removing rear drums<br />
<br />
Now reattach the front and rear 5 lug suspension in the opposite order as removal. If you are new to this, it might be a good idea to do one side start to finish so you have the other side as a reference. A Helms manual includes all the proper torque specs and is very helpful at this point. Once you are finished, it should look something like this: <br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/reardone1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: reardone1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/wheel_close1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: wheel_close1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Suspension is complete! Big Brakes!<br />
<br />
Once the suspension is complete, It's time to replace the master cylinder and booster. You cannot change the stock 13/16" master cylinder for the 1" model without changing the booster as well. The bolt pattern between the two is different. So you will need to swap them as a pair.<br />
<br />
You will need to cut and re-flare one of the brake hardlines in order to do this. The hardline that needs to be re flared and bent runs from the master cylendar the proportioning valve. Once you have removed the old master cylinder, cut the flare off the end of the line. Then remove the flare nut. You will need the larger flare nut from the Integra master cylendar, so be sure to get that with when you buy the master cylinder.<br />
<br />
I installed the new master cylinder and booster before bending the hard line. Once I had bent the line and everything lined up properly, I removed the master cylinder again and re flared the hardline. This is not easy so try to find a friend who knows how to do it, or practice a lot on some extra pipe. It's not that hard to do, just takes a little practice. Once this is done, you should be able to re-attach the hard line to both the master cylinder and proportioning valve while retaining a nice, clean OEM look. One the below picture you can see how I bent and re-routed the hardline. A close up of the bend is also included for your pleasure.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/mc_booster1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: mc_booster1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/hard_line1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: hard_line1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Master Cylindar &amp; Booster Bent Hard Line<br />
<br />
Once you've replaced the master cylinder and booster, you will need to replace the proportioning valve. Be sure to get a special 10mm "pipe wrench" as a normal open ended wrench can strip the flare nuts real easy. It looks like a closed wrench, but with one side cut out. Definetly a worthwile investment when doing this project!<br />
<br />
This shows exactly where on the propotioning valve the '4040' stamp is. Look real closely to the picture (or load the fullsize image) and you woll see the first '40' of the '4040' stamp.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/prop_valve1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: prop_valve1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/4040_1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: 4040_1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Proportioning valve Look real close to se 4040 on there<br />
<br />
One this is all done, refill the brake lines. Bleed your brakes thuroughly, and check for leaks. Then put on your new wheels and get take it for a test drive. Be sure to be easy on the car at first so you don't plow into a wall if your brakes fail. That would be a bad thing :-)<br />
The braking differnece is amazing. If I wanted to, I could instantly lock the wheels at any speed. The pedal feel is great with the larger MC/booster and the steel lines. The amount of braking power is unbelieveable. I never have to worry about the person in front of me out breaking me. I often have to check the car behind me to make sure I am not overbreaking on them.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/side1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: side1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
The feeling of control and confidence is much higher compared to the old brakes. I can actually feel the friction between the rotors and pads since installing the steel lines. I can go through off ramps and turns much faster and brake much later. It makes driving the car so muf fun. now I hace the insane stopping power to match the acceleration. I love it!<br />
<br />
I highly reccomend this modification for your Civic!<br />
<br />
Sursa: <a href="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/</a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">5 Lug Conversion</span><br />
<br />
The first, and often most challenging part of this upgrade is to source the necessary parts. Considering that thee weren't that many Type R's made, there is even less wrecked ones being parted out. Expect to pay between &#36;1500.00 and &#36;2000.00 for the complete suspension and wheels/tires from a wrecked Type R. Sometimes you can find partial suspensions for less, as I did. When doing this modification to your Civic, it pays to be patient. Five lug conversion packages aern't avaliable that often. So when you do find one, be ready to move fast.<br />
<br />
You can piece this entire assembly together using new, OEM parts if you wish. However you cannot do this without spending a LOT more money compared to getting it off a Type R. The reason why it is much more expensive to buy the necessary components for a five lug conversion is in the rear suspension. Although the physical trailing arm is identical to that of a normal Integra, the spindle is different.<br />
<br />
The track on a Type R is 10mm wider than that any other Integra. This results in the wheels being pushed out another 5mm on all corners compared to a non Type R. This means the rear spindle needs to be 5mm longer as well. Unfortunetly for us, Acura of America will not sell the spindle by itself (They do in Japan). So you would have to buy the entire rear trailing arm assembly to get the proper spindle. This drives the cost way up. Therefore, it is much less expensive to simply get the parts off a wrecked Type R.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">What you will need</span><br />
<br />
(Pics are clickable)<br />
First the front. The minimum you will need is the front knuckle/hub assembly from a Type R. Hopefully it will come with the calipers and rotors, as mine did. If not, you can use the calipers from a 91-97 Accord Wagon and rotors from a 97+ Prelude. Note: You can reuse your Civic front upper control arms if necessary. However if the Type R upper control arms are included, you may want to use those for the stiffer/newer bushings.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/comparison1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: comparison1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/knucklerear1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: knucklerear1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Front Comparison Nice shot of front caliper<br />
<br />
For the rear you will need the trailing arm assembly from a Type R. This should include the rear calipers and rotors as well. The rear caliper is the same as a GSR caliper. The main difference with the Type R calipers are the caliper brackets, they space the calipers .75" farther out to clear the 10.25" rotors. It is unknow if the rotor is similar to any other model Honda.<br />
 <br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/arm1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: arm1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Rear Trailing arm<br />
<br />
If you are changing from rear drums you will also need new parking brake cables (from any Integra) and new brake lines. However if you already have 4 wheel disk brakes, you should be able to use your old brake lines and e brake cables. I installed Steel Braided brake lines as part of the change over process.<br />
<br />
You will also need a one inch master cylendar &amp; booster from any 94+ Integra as well as a '4040' 4 wheel disk proportioning valve. These can be had from any 92-95 Civic Si or a 92-93 Integra. Be sure to get the one that has '4040' stamped on it. The '3030' proportioning valve is for a front disk, rear drum setup and will not work safely on a Civic with 4 wheel disk brakes. <br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The Process</span><br />
<br />
First you'll need to remove the old suspension components. Start by draing the old Master cylinder. This is a lot easier if you have an old turkey baster to suck the brake fluid out with. You can see the old 13/16" master cylinder in this picture.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/engine1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: engine1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Beautiful!<br />
<br />
To break down the front suspension you want to start by removing the axle nuts. This is not as easy as you would think. An impact gun makes this much easier.<br />
<br />
Once the axle nuts have been removed, remove the brake line from the calipers. If you are replcing the brake lines along with the knuckles, you'll need to remove the brake lines from where they attach to the chassis hardlines. Then remove the three castle nuts which secure the knuckle to the car. Once you have done this you can break the ball joints loose and remove the knuckles.<br />
<br />
For the rear, remove the brake lines first. Then go inside the car and detach the parking brake cables from the parking brake lever. Pull the cables out of the cabin from underneath the car. This involves removing the exhaust and rear heat shields. There are are three 10mm bolts per side which secure the e brake cables as they snake back to the corners. Remove those as well.<br />
<br />
At this point you are ready to remove the trailing arm assembly. Simply unblolt it from the lower comtrol arm, the upper control arm, the frame, and the tie rod. Once you do this the whole assembly will fall off the car.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/tearout1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: tearout1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Removing rear drums<br />
<br />
Now reattach the front and rear 5 lug suspension in the opposite order as removal. If you are new to this, it might be a good idea to do one side start to finish so you have the other side as a reference. A Helms manual includes all the proper torque specs and is very helpful at this point. Once you are finished, it should look something like this: <br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/reardone1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: reardone1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/wheel_close1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: wheel_close1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Suspension is complete! Big Brakes!<br />
<br />
Once the suspension is complete, It's time to replace the master cylinder and booster. You cannot change the stock 13/16" master cylinder for the 1" model without changing the booster as well. The bolt pattern between the two is different. So you will need to swap them as a pair.<br />
<br />
You will need to cut and re-flare one of the brake hardlines in order to do this. The hardline that needs to be re flared and bent runs from the master cylendar the proportioning valve. Once you have removed the old master cylinder, cut the flare off the end of the line. Then remove the flare nut. You will need the larger flare nut from the Integra master cylendar, so be sure to get that with when you buy the master cylinder.<br />
<br />
I installed the new master cylinder and booster before bending the hard line. Once I had bent the line and everything lined up properly, I removed the master cylinder again and re flared the hardline. This is not easy so try to find a friend who knows how to do it, or practice a lot on some extra pipe. It's not that hard to do, just takes a little practice. Once this is done, you should be able to re-attach the hard line to both the master cylinder and proportioning valve while retaining a nice, clean OEM look. One the below picture you can see how I bent and re-routed the hardline. A close up of the bend is also included for your pleasure.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/mc_booster1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: mc_booster1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/hard_line1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: hard_line1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Master Cylindar &amp; Booster Bent Hard Line<br />
<br />
Once you've replaced the master cylinder and booster, you will need to replace the proportioning valve. Be sure to get a special 10mm "pipe wrench" as a normal open ended wrench can strip the flare nuts real easy. It looks like a closed wrench, but with one side cut out. Definetly a worthwile investment when doing this project!<br />
<br />
This shows exactly where on the propotioning valve the '4040' stamp is. Look real closely to the picture (or load the fullsize image) and you woll see the first '40' of the '4040' stamp.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/prop_valve1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: prop_valve1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/4040_1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: 4040_1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
Proportioning valve Look real close to se 4040 on there<br />
<br />
One this is all done, refill the brake lines. Bleed your brakes thuroughly, and check for leaks. Then put on your new wheels and get take it for a test drive. Be sure to be easy on the car at first so you don't plow into a wall if your brakes fail. That would be a bad thing :-)<br />
The braking differnece is amazing. If I wanted to, I could instantly lock the wheels at any speed. The pedal feel is great with the larger MC/booster and the steel lines. The amount of braking power is unbelieveable. I never have to worry about the person in front of me out breaking me. I often have to check the car behind me to make sure I am not overbreaking on them.<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/eg/side1.jpg" loading="lazy"  alt="[Image: side1.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
The feeling of control and confidence is much higher compared to the old brakes. I can actually feel the friction between the rotors and pads since installing the steel lines. I can go through off ramps and turns much faster and brake much later. It makes driving the car so muf fun. now I hace the insane stopping power to match the acceleration. I love it!<br />
<br />
I highly reccomend this modification for your Civic!<br />
<br />
Sursa: <a href="http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">http://www.hybridautomotive.com/tech/5lug/</a>]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Eroare frana si ABS la CRX Del Sol]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Eroare-frana-si-ABS-la-CRX-Del-Sol</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Oct 2013 18:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=275">andreicsa</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Eroare-frana-si-ABS-la-CRX-Del-Sol</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Am urmatoarea problema la Del Sol (an 1993, b16a2): Mi se aprind cele 2 becuri de frana (!)(P) in mers, dupa care se aprinde si becul de ABS. <br />
<br />
Cateodata se sting la repornirea motorului, cateodata nu. Se sting dupa un timp ... si se reaprind dupa alt timp <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Icon_twisted" title="Icon_twisted" class="smilie smilie_73" />. Dar oridinea e aceeasi: prima data becul de frana, apoi cel de ABS la maxim 1 minut.<br />
<br />
Am facut diagnoza “cu agrafa”, iar codul de eroare este 21 = Hand Brake.<br />
<br />
-	Am resetat calculatorul de ABS, am scos siguranta mare, apoi pe cea de 15A (cum zice manualul). Se reseteaza dar reapare dupa ceva timp.<br />
<br />
-	Am scos mufa de la frana de mana .... eroarea rezista.<br />
<br />
Lichid de frana am, placute am schimbat acum 3000km si arata ca noi.<br />
<br />
Masina franeaza perfect, iar ABS-ul functioneaza chiar daca e aprins becul.<br />
<br />
Masina are roti R14, pe dimensiunea de fabrica, cauciucuri noi.<br />
<br />
Cine are o idee ... e binevenit sa o exprime.<br />
<br />
Multumesc anticipat pentru orice colaborare.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Am urmatoarea problema la Del Sol (an 1993, b16a2): Mi se aprind cele 2 becuri de frana (!)(P) in mers, dupa care se aprinde si becul de ABS. <br />
<br />
Cateodata se sting la repornirea motorului, cateodata nu. Se sting dupa un timp ... si se reaprind dupa alt timp <img src="https://www.hondatalk.ro/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Icon_twisted" title="Icon_twisted" class="smilie smilie_73" />. Dar oridinea e aceeasi: prima data becul de frana, apoi cel de ABS la maxim 1 minut.<br />
<br />
Am facut diagnoza “cu agrafa”, iar codul de eroare este 21 = Hand Brake.<br />
<br />
-	Am resetat calculatorul de ABS, am scos siguranta mare, apoi pe cea de 15A (cum zice manualul). Se reseteaza dar reapare dupa ceva timp.<br />
<br />
-	Am scos mufa de la frana de mana .... eroarea rezista.<br />
<br />
Lichid de frana am, placute am schimbat acum 3000km si arata ca noi.<br />
<br />
Masina franeaza perfect, iar ABS-ul functioneaza chiar daca e aprins becul.<br />
<br />
Masina are roti R14, pe dimensiunea de fabrica, cauciucuri noi.<br />
<br />
Cine are o idee ... e binevenit sa o exprime.<br />
<br />
Multumesc anticipat pentru orice colaborare.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Despre Frane...]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Despre-Frane</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=1">admin</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Despre-Frane</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Un articol foarte interesant despre frane scris de Tom (<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">STI</span>)<br />
Multumim mult pentru share.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Franare (introducere):</span><br />
<br />
Primul lucru pe care trebuie sa il intelegem este ca franarea inseamna frecare, implicit si caldura. Astfel, frecarea rezultata dintre placuta si disc inseamna caldura depozitata in disc si caldura depozitata in etrier. Odata acumulata caldura in cele doua piese, incepe sa creasca si temperatura lichidului de frana. Astfel, pentru a avea frane in orice conditie si cat mai bune este recomandata curatarea etrierilor si discurilor odata la 1-2 ani de praf sau alte depuneri. In acest fel putem fi siguri ca discurile si etrierii se racesc cat de bine se poate. Alta solutie ar fi schimbarea lichidului de frana cu un lichid care are un punct de fierbere mai mare sau o solutie ieftina este sa incercam sa aducem aer rece din partea frontala a masini la discuri, ajutand astfel la reducerea temperaturii.<br />
Odata rezolvata problema temperaturii putem sa ne gandim la niste furtunase cu insertii metalice. Acestea ajuta in conditii de presiune mare sau temperaturi mari pentru ca exteriorul metalic nu permite dilatarea furtunului de serie (din cauciuc) sub presiuni mari sau pierderea de proprietati ale materialului in timp.<br />
<br />
Dupa rezolvarea problemelor de mai sus putem sa marim gradul de frecare pentru ca stim ca putem disipa destula caldura si simtim nevoia de mai multa forta de franare. Urmatorii pasi ne spun ce trebuie sa facem pentru o franare mai buna, apoi pentru o franare puternica si in final ajungem la frane de circuit.<br />
 1.Cel mai simplu este sa se inceapa cu o placuta de frana cu grad de frecare mai mare. Placute noi se pot monta pe niste discuri vechi, dar niciodata nu este ok sa se monteze placute vechi pe discuri noi. Salvati-va banii si durerile de cap si daca schimbati discurile schimbati si placutele.<br />
 2.Dupa problema placutelor putem sa ne gandim la discuri mai performante, cu un grad de frecare mai mare, perforate, striate sau flotante. Aici sincer depinde mai mult de gustul fiecaruia si de bugetul cu care se lucreaza. Majoritatea vor opta pentru un disc perforat sau striat (acestea sunt dezbatute putin mai jos). O varianta mai profi dar si mai scumpa este discul flotant care are cam toate beneficiile celor perforate si striate dar datorita sistemului de prindere al discului pe butuc acestea au o greutate mult mai redusa decat cele 2. Greutate mai mica = masa rotationala redusa = motorul depunde mai putin efort la invartirea transmisiei / temperaturi mai scazute in sistemul de franare.<br />
 3.Ultimul pas in sistemul de franare este adoptarea unui kit de frane marit. Astfel adoptand un diametru mai mare suprafata de frecare este una mai mare deci forta de franare este mai mare. Aici, pe langa suprafata de franare, se iau in considerare de obicei discuri flotante, etrieri cu mai multe pistonase sau discuri racite cu apa, dar aia deja este tehnologie de WRC si e cam scumpa pentru muritorul de rand.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Rodaj frane:</span><br />
<br />
Acum, ca stim destule despre frane, cel mai important pas este rodarea lor, pentru ca aici exista foarte multe informatii proaste si oamenii nu procedeaza corect intotdeauna.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmdwQtjaQc" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmdwQtjaQc</a> <br />
Modul corect este explicat mai sus de un tehnician de la Ap Racing ( unul dintre cei mai mari producatori de frane performante de pe piata ), dar daca nu aveti rabdare practic procedeul de rodare corect al unor frane este incalzirea acestora din ce in ce mai mult, prin cateva franari de la 100km/h pana la 40km/h, dar niciodata in acest procedeu sa nu franati pana va opriti (chiar daca vedeti ca incepe sa iasa fum - e normal). Sistemul de franare odata ajuns la o temperatura buna de operare, acum este important sa mai franam de 4-5 ori de la 130km/h pana la 50km/h pentru ca placuta noua sa depuna din materialul ei pe discul de frana. Dupa aceste 4-5 franari este important sa nu va opriti, ci sa mergeti incet timp de 10-15 minute pentru a racii sistemul de franare. Smecheria acestui procedeu este ca in acel moment placuta si-a depus din materialul ei pe discul de frana si astfel veti avea o forta de franare mult mai buna cand veti apasa frana de acum inainte. De obicei aceste depuneri pe disc dureaza maxim 5000km in functie de utilizare, deci este recomandat sa se repete procedeul la 5000km sau cand simtiti nevoia. Este foarte important ca atunci cand franele sunt calde si au o temperatura ridicata de frana sa nu ne oprim brusc sau sa ne oprim si sa lasam masina cu frana de mana trasa deoarece in acel moment pacutele pot ramane lipite de disc si asta strica cam tot procedeul incercat sau mai rau in cazul unui track day iti poate strica toata distractia.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Frane la track day:</span><br />
<br />
Inainte de orice track day ar fi foarte important sa verificati urmatoarele:<br />
1. Placutele sa nu fie uzate peste 40%.<br />
2. Lichidul de frana sa nu fie mai vechi de 6 luni<br />
3. Discurile sa nu aiba uzura excesiva sau sa fie ovalizate<br />
<br />
 In cazul in care undeva depasiti aceste valori eu v-as recomanda sa remediati problema neaparat inainte de track day deoarece motorul poate il spargi dar tot franele te opresc si daca ramai fara frane te va opri ceva dur si nu neaparat casant.<br />
Majoritatea prefera, inclusiv eu, inainte de orice track day schimbarea placutelor cu unele noi si lichidul de frana cu unul nou.<br />
 In timpul unui track day nu uitati ca este foarte important sa nu va opriti sau sa lasati masina in parcare dupa cateva ture cu frana de mana trasa deoarece asta va rezulta in placutele de frana lipite pe discuri. Mai mult, la un track day trebuie sa incercam sa nu ne aruncam in frane la fiecare viraj. Cateodata ai rezultate mai bune daca dozezi mai usor frana decat sa te arunci in frane la fiecare viraj. Astfel salvezi si franele, mentii si temperatura lor mai scazuta, deci iti pastrezi si o forta de franare mai echilibrata, si oferi destul timp franelor sa se raceasca intre viraje.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Discuri perforate vs striate:</span><br />
<br />
 Care sunt mai bune depinde de fiecare dar scopul fiecarui disc e inteles diferit si perceput la fel. De exemplu cei de la Porsche sustin ca discurile perforate sunt mai bune si le prefera deoarece acestea au un raspuns mai rapid in conditii umede intrucat perforatiile permit disiparea umiditatii acumulate intre disc si placuta mai repede, scazand astfel si temperatura franelor. Pe de alta parte, producatorul de frane Stoptech raspunde ca prefera discurile perforate deoarece acestea au mai putina masa rotationala, rezultand intr-un efort mai mic depus de motor la fiecare rotatie.<br />
In alta ordine de idei, oamenii care alearga in diferite competitii prefera discurile striate deoarece si acestea reusesc sa disipe caldura, praf sau umiditate acumulate in disc dar in acelasi timp nefiind perforate au o rezistenta mai mare la presiune si in conditii termice foarte ridicate, minimalizand riscul de crapare a discurilor de frana.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Un articol foarte interesant despre frane scris de Tom (<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">STI</span>)<br />
Multumim mult pentru share.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Franare (introducere):</span><br />
<br />
Primul lucru pe care trebuie sa il intelegem este ca franarea inseamna frecare, implicit si caldura. Astfel, frecarea rezultata dintre placuta si disc inseamna caldura depozitata in disc si caldura depozitata in etrier. Odata acumulata caldura in cele doua piese, incepe sa creasca si temperatura lichidului de frana. Astfel, pentru a avea frane in orice conditie si cat mai bune este recomandata curatarea etrierilor si discurilor odata la 1-2 ani de praf sau alte depuneri. In acest fel putem fi siguri ca discurile si etrierii se racesc cat de bine se poate. Alta solutie ar fi schimbarea lichidului de frana cu un lichid care are un punct de fierbere mai mare sau o solutie ieftina este sa incercam sa aducem aer rece din partea frontala a masini la discuri, ajutand astfel la reducerea temperaturii.<br />
Odata rezolvata problema temperaturii putem sa ne gandim la niste furtunase cu insertii metalice. Acestea ajuta in conditii de presiune mare sau temperaturi mari pentru ca exteriorul metalic nu permite dilatarea furtunului de serie (din cauciuc) sub presiuni mari sau pierderea de proprietati ale materialului in timp.<br />
<br />
Dupa rezolvarea problemelor de mai sus putem sa marim gradul de frecare pentru ca stim ca putem disipa destula caldura si simtim nevoia de mai multa forta de franare. Urmatorii pasi ne spun ce trebuie sa facem pentru o franare mai buna, apoi pentru o franare puternica si in final ajungem la frane de circuit.<br />
 1.Cel mai simplu este sa se inceapa cu o placuta de frana cu grad de frecare mai mare. Placute noi se pot monta pe niste discuri vechi, dar niciodata nu este ok sa se monteze placute vechi pe discuri noi. Salvati-va banii si durerile de cap si daca schimbati discurile schimbati si placutele.<br />
 2.Dupa problema placutelor putem sa ne gandim la discuri mai performante, cu un grad de frecare mai mare, perforate, striate sau flotante. Aici sincer depinde mai mult de gustul fiecaruia si de bugetul cu care se lucreaza. Majoritatea vor opta pentru un disc perforat sau striat (acestea sunt dezbatute putin mai jos). O varianta mai profi dar si mai scumpa este discul flotant care are cam toate beneficiile celor perforate si striate dar datorita sistemului de prindere al discului pe butuc acestea au o greutate mult mai redusa decat cele 2. Greutate mai mica = masa rotationala redusa = motorul depunde mai putin efort la invartirea transmisiei / temperaturi mai scazute in sistemul de franare.<br />
 3.Ultimul pas in sistemul de franare este adoptarea unui kit de frane marit. Astfel adoptand un diametru mai mare suprafata de frecare este una mai mare deci forta de franare este mai mare. Aici, pe langa suprafata de franare, se iau in considerare de obicei discuri flotante, etrieri cu mai multe pistonase sau discuri racite cu apa, dar aia deja este tehnologie de WRC si e cam scumpa pentru muritorul de rand.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Rodaj frane:</span><br />
<br />
Acum, ca stim destule despre frane, cel mai important pas este rodarea lor, pentru ca aici exista foarte multe informatii proaste si oamenii nu procedeaza corect intotdeauna.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmdwQtjaQc" target="_blank" rel="noopener" class="mycode_url">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmdwQtjaQc</a> <br />
Modul corect este explicat mai sus de un tehnician de la Ap Racing ( unul dintre cei mai mari producatori de frane performante de pe piata ), dar daca nu aveti rabdare practic procedeul de rodare corect al unor frane este incalzirea acestora din ce in ce mai mult, prin cateva franari de la 100km/h pana la 40km/h, dar niciodata in acest procedeu sa nu franati pana va opriti (chiar daca vedeti ca incepe sa iasa fum - e normal). Sistemul de franare odata ajuns la o temperatura buna de operare, acum este important sa mai franam de 4-5 ori de la 130km/h pana la 50km/h pentru ca placuta noua sa depuna din materialul ei pe discul de frana. Dupa aceste 4-5 franari este important sa nu va opriti, ci sa mergeti incet timp de 10-15 minute pentru a racii sistemul de franare. Smecheria acestui procedeu este ca in acel moment placuta si-a depus din materialul ei pe discul de frana si astfel veti avea o forta de franare mult mai buna cand veti apasa frana de acum inainte. De obicei aceste depuneri pe disc dureaza maxim 5000km in functie de utilizare, deci este recomandat sa se repete procedeul la 5000km sau cand simtiti nevoia. Este foarte important ca atunci cand franele sunt calde si au o temperatura ridicata de frana sa nu ne oprim brusc sau sa ne oprim si sa lasam masina cu frana de mana trasa deoarece in acel moment pacutele pot ramane lipite de disc si asta strica cam tot procedeul incercat sau mai rau in cazul unui track day iti poate strica toata distractia.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Frane la track day:</span><br />
<br />
Inainte de orice track day ar fi foarte important sa verificati urmatoarele:<br />
1. Placutele sa nu fie uzate peste 40%.<br />
2. Lichidul de frana sa nu fie mai vechi de 6 luni<br />
3. Discurile sa nu aiba uzura excesiva sau sa fie ovalizate<br />
<br />
 In cazul in care undeva depasiti aceste valori eu v-as recomanda sa remediati problema neaparat inainte de track day deoarece motorul poate il spargi dar tot franele te opresc si daca ramai fara frane te va opri ceva dur si nu neaparat casant.<br />
Majoritatea prefera, inclusiv eu, inainte de orice track day schimbarea placutelor cu unele noi si lichidul de frana cu unul nou.<br />
 In timpul unui track day nu uitati ca este foarte important sa nu va opriti sau sa lasati masina in parcare dupa cateva ture cu frana de mana trasa deoarece asta va rezulta in placutele de frana lipite pe discuri. Mai mult, la un track day trebuie sa incercam sa nu ne aruncam in frane la fiecare viraj. Cateodata ai rezultate mai bune daca dozezi mai usor frana decat sa te arunci in frane la fiecare viraj. Astfel salvezi si franele, mentii si temperatura lor mai scazuta, deci iti pastrezi si o forta de franare mai echilibrata, si oferi destul timp franelor sa se raceasca intre viraje.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Discuri perforate vs striate:</span><br />
<br />
 Care sunt mai bune depinde de fiecare dar scopul fiecarui disc e inteles diferit si perceput la fel. De exemplu cei de la Porsche sustin ca discurile perforate sunt mai bune si le prefera deoarece acestea au un raspuns mai rapid in conditii umede intrucat perforatiile permit disiparea umiditatii acumulate intre disc si placuta mai repede, scazand astfel si temperatura franelor. Pe de alta parte, producatorul de frane Stoptech raspunde ca prefera discurile perforate deoarece acestea au mai putina masa rotationala, rezultand intr-un efort mai mic depus de motor la fiecare rotatie.<br />
In alta ordine de idei, oamenii care alearga in diferite competitii prefera discurile striate deoarece si acestea reusesc sa disipe caldura, praf sau umiditate acumulate in disc dar in acelasi timp nefiind perforate au o rezistenta mai mare la presiune si in conditii termice foarte ridicate, minimalizand riscul de crapare a discurilor de frana.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Probleme frana de mana Civic 5D - rechemare]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Probleme-frana-de-mana-Civic-5D-rechemare</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=54">w33bb0</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Probleme-frana-de-mana-Civic-5D-rechemare</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Nu stiu daca merita sa fac un thread nou pentru chestiunea urmatoare, asa ca scriu aici. Daca se lungeste discutia, facem thread.<br />
<br />
Am fost sunat saptamana trecuta de un domn de la Carpati Motors (dealerul de unde am cumparat eu masina) care mi-a adus la cunostinta despre un recall la Civic-ul 5D (si, probabil, nu numai 5D) pentru ceva chestiuni referitoare la frana de mana. Cica schimba nu-stiu-ce.<br />
<br />
A mai fost careva sunat in legatura cu problema asta?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Nu stiu daca merita sa fac un thread nou pentru chestiunea urmatoare, asa ca scriu aici. Daca se lungeste discutia, facem thread.<br />
<br />
Am fost sunat saptamana trecuta de un domn de la Carpati Motors (dealerul de unde am cumparat eu masina) care mi-a adus la cunostinta despre un recall la Civic-ul 5D (si, probabil, nu numai 5D) pentru ceva chestiuni referitoare la frana de mana. Cica schimba nu-stiu-ce.<br />
<br />
A mai fost careva sunat in legatura cu problema asta?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Atentie cu franele...]]></title>
			<link>https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Atentie-cu-franele</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 00:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.hondatalk.ro/member.php?action=profile&uid=31">417431</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.hondatalk.ro/Thread-Atentie-cu-franele</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Sambata sa intamplat..<br />
Mergeam prin oras de vreo 20 minute . Vine o intersectie . Semaforul rosu . <br />
La un moment dat realizez ca sunt cam aproape de el si inca n-am franat . Ma gandesc rapid : " cum de n-am vazut pana acum?! " Apas pedala si nimic. Mai apas o data si cade pedala la podea. Pana sa mai am timp de altceva eram deja dincolo de intersectie . Noroc ca nu erau masini pe drumul cu prioritate.<br />
Ma opresc pe dreapta si deschid capota .Vasul cu lichid de frana aproape gol. <br />
Trimit pe frate-meu in spate sa se uite la roti . Cand apas pedala curge lichidul la roata dreapta spate .<br />
Am ajuns asa incet acasa cu 1-a a 2-a . Ridic masina pe cric ma uit si se vedea undeva in spatele etrierului ca picura dar nu mi-am dat seama exact. Cum nu aveam acces acolo si nici canal unde sa ma duc m-am dus la mecanic.<br />
Sub surubul de aerisire la frane era o amarata de saiba distrusa de la care sa desfacut surubul ala de aerisit frana.<br />
Ideea e ca am vazut de ceva vreme ca dispare lichidul de frana asa incet . Tot am completat dar mi-a fost LENE sa caut care e problema. <br />
Are bec de avertizare care se aprinde cand scade mai mult lichidul . Sa aprins si ala candva dar totusi mergea frana. Am completat atunci i m-am bazat tot timpul pe asta "daca scade prea mult se aprinde becul". De data asta nu sa mai aprins decat prea tarziu.<br />
Ma gandesc acum ca toata amanarea asta m-ar fi putut costa foarte mult...<br />
Nu stiu daca e neaparat util ce am scris aici dar sper sa nu aveti niciodata probleme de astea. <br />
Ideea e ca nu e de joaca cu frana ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Sambata sa intamplat..<br />
Mergeam prin oras de vreo 20 minute . Vine o intersectie . Semaforul rosu . <br />
La un moment dat realizez ca sunt cam aproape de el si inca n-am franat . Ma gandesc rapid : " cum de n-am vazut pana acum?! " Apas pedala si nimic. Mai apas o data si cade pedala la podea. Pana sa mai am timp de altceva eram deja dincolo de intersectie . Noroc ca nu erau masini pe drumul cu prioritate.<br />
Ma opresc pe dreapta si deschid capota .Vasul cu lichid de frana aproape gol. <br />
Trimit pe frate-meu in spate sa se uite la roti . Cand apas pedala curge lichidul la roata dreapta spate .<br />
Am ajuns asa incet acasa cu 1-a a 2-a . Ridic masina pe cric ma uit si se vedea undeva in spatele etrierului ca picura dar nu mi-am dat seama exact. Cum nu aveam acces acolo si nici canal unde sa ma duc m-am dus la mecanic.<br />
Sub surubul de aerisire la frane era o amarata de saiba distrusa de la care sa desfacut surubul ala de aerisit frana.<br />
Ideea e ca am vazut de ceva vreme ca dispare lichidul de frana asa incet . Tot am completat dar mi-a fost LENE sa caut care e problema. <br />
Are bec de avertizare care se aprinde cand scade mai mult lichidul . Sa aprins si ala candva dar totusi mergea frana. Am completat atunci i m-am bazat tot timpul pe asta "daca scade prea mult se aprinde becul". De data asta nu sa mai aprins decat prea tarziu.<br />
Ma gandesc acum ca toata amanarea asta m-ar fi putut costa foarte mult...<br />
Nu stiu daca e neaparat util ce am scris aici dar sper sa nu aveti niciodata probleme de astea. <br />
Ideea e ca nu e de joaca cu frana ...]]></content:encoded>
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