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Front Upper Arm, Rear Lower Arm And Camber



 
#1

[Image: S4_Civic_1.gif]

Overview

Honda has a legendary reputation for making its vehicles fun-to-drive with precise steering and responsive suspension tuning with refined road manners. Precise and sharp handling performance also contributes to accident avoidance maneuverability - one of the key reasons Honda pays so much attention to handling performance. The 2006 Honda Civic chassis delivers higher levels of sportiness and ride comfort with improvements in three key areas - enhanced suspension geometry with larger wheels and tires, a longer wheelbase, and a new generation 4-channel anti-lock braking system (ABS). The changes add up to a new Civic that is even more responsive and sporty in demanding situations while also maintaining a smooth and comfortable ride. The potent Civic Si takes handling performance to a new extreme and demonstrates the potential of the Civic platform.
Chassis Summary
All Models

Control-Link MacPherson Strut Front Suspension with improved caster angle and toe-control dynamics
Multi-link compact double wishbone suspension with improved damper size and location
Wider track for sedan (+1.3 inches front/+2.5 inches rear)
Wider track for coupe (+1.1 inches front/+2.1 inches rear)
Advanced Logic 4-channel ABS System

Civic Si

High performance springs, dampers and sway bars (front and rear)
Larger 17-inch alloy wheels (+1 inch)
Michelin Pilot HX 215/45 R17 tires

(Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 high performance summer tire package available)

Large 11.8-inch ventilated front disc brakes, 10.2-inch solid rear disc brakes

Civic Hybrid

15-inch lightweight and aerodynamic alloy wheels
Low rolling resistance P195/65 R15 tires

Civic Sedan and Coupe

Larger 16-inch wheels on LX and EX (alloy on EX), 15-inch on DX
Larger P205/55 R16 tires on LX and EX, P195/65 R15 on DX
4-wheel disc brakes on EX
MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
The MacPherson strut front suspension incorporates new geometry with a high caster angle, and inversely wound springs for straight line stability, along with improved toe-control dynamics for sharp and responsive steering. To improve steering rigidity, and reduce friction, the steering gear box was mounted lower. Significant changes to steering angles, bushings, material rigidity, and spring and shock tuning result in amazingly linear suspension movement at the upper limit of vehicle dynamics and flatter cornering. When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion. To improve ride comfort, the compliance angle on the lower control arm was optimized to transmit less harshness. Further enhancements include less center offset with the wheel to minimize the potential for torque steer and shimmy (i.e. the tires' ability to transmit pavement irregularities into the suspension).

[Image: S4_Civic_2.gif]


Honda engineers have also revisited the rear suspension to improve the Civic's handling precision and ride. The multi-link double wishbone rear suspension benefits from a new design that facilitates more rebound stroke and improved positioning of the damper. The improved rebound stroke allows the vehicle to soak up bumps and harsh road surfaces with quietness and ease, while also enhancing overall stability. The damper is mounted closer to the wheels for a more favorable 1.1:1 lever ratio between suspension movement and the distance that the damper actually travels (the previous ratio was 1.7:1). The more direct relationship means the dampers are able to provide better damping and control throughout the full range of suspension travel. These enhancements combined with sport-oriented spring and damper settings greatly increase the overall sporty feel of the vehicle and increase the feeling of coordination between the front and rear suspensions (a surprisingly uncommon trait in many vehicles).

[Image: S4_Civic_3.gif]

Odata ce ati coborat masina mai jos decat stock, rotile nu vor mai avea un unghi corespunzator iar anvelopele se vor uza mai accentuat pe interior, pentru a regla unghiul de cadere trebuie schimbate bratele cu unele reglabile sau speciale pentru suspensia sport pe care o aveti. O alta solutie de reglare a unghiului de cadere ar fi schimbarea pivotului cu unul reglabil si lista contiuna...

Va rog sa ma ajutati sa dezvolt aceast Thread destul de importat in ceea ce priveste suspensia, unghiul respectiv traiectoria rotiilor.

Skunk2 Pro Series camber kits are designed as an affordable mid-level camber kit with 5 degrees of adjustment. The Pro Series kit features the same one-piece forged balljoint as the more expensive Pro Series Plus, but instead of polyurethane bushings, the Pro uses standard high quality rubber bushings. Ideal for race or street use.
Sold as a pair. Includes two (2) replacement front upper control arms.

Features
+/- 5 Degrees of adjustment
Cadmium plated for corrosion resistance
Prevents uneven tire wear

[Image: skunk2camberdiagram.jpg]






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#2

Inca un quality thread de la colegul Laux Biggthumpup



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#3

Daca tot este vorba de suspensia la Honda cred ca o sa gasiti urmatoarele quote-uri interesante, sunt preluate de pe ITR-dc2 postate de cineva care are cateva idei despre Honda Icon_wink
Quote:The rear suspension on the DC2 (and a lot of other Honda's) is quite special.

The trailing arm bush is designed so the wheel can move backward or forward - that's why there's so much play in it.

The trailing arm is controlled by 3 arms. Simplifying slightly:

The lower control arm takes the main side loads.
The upper control arm controls camber.
The front control arm controls toe.

The special bit comes in when you brake. When you're braking, the tyre as it grips wants to move slower than the car currently is. That pulls the wheel backwards compared to the car.

Now, the trailing arm bush is specifically designed to allow the wheel to move back like this under braking. You're probably thinking that's useless and bonkers. Not so. Look at the lower control arm, and the front control arm. When the trailing arm moves back, it's held by both of those arms which limit where it can move. The front control arm is a lot shorter than the lower control arm. So when the trailing arm moves backward under the braking load, the front arm will angle more than the lower arm simply because it's shorter. That means the front of the trailing arm has to move inwards. Adding toe in.

To put it simpler, the trailing arm bush is designed to be soft so that the arm moves back under braking, causing the front control arm to pull the front of the trailing arm in, adding toe in, stabalising the back end under braking.

Even more clever is the way the amount of toe it added is purely related to how far back the wheel is pulled, which is related to how hard you're breaking and how much grip that wheel has. So if one wheel loses grip compared to the other, the toe of the two wheels will differ, helping stabalise the rear end. Really cool, and clever.

Honda has several patents on it.

If you put a much harder bushing in place of the standard trailing arm bush, you stop the backward movement under braking which stops the toe change under braking. Whether you want that or not, is up to you. But if you do it, you should consider what toe to run at the back as it's effectively static after the bush change. You can set the car up to work well either way - I'm just making the point that removing this cool toe change under braking behaviour without considering the overall handling effects isn't necessarily a good thing for everyone. I've certainly seen enough people who've probably been saved from a spin by the standard behaviour when they end up braking too deep into a corner to consider it worthless.

Just thought people might find that of interest... handling is a lot more subtle that you'd think

-Brian.

Acest post a fost pus in discutie la traction bars:
Quote:As has been said, these traction bars actually improve toe control.

The normal lower wishbone is made of two parts. One part that goes across the car (to which the bottom ball joint drops into, and the damper bolts), and a second part that goes to the back of the subframe. The two are held together by some bolts (one of which is normally a press fit).

Now the toe control on the standard setup comes from the bush at the back of the second part of the bottom wishbone, and the track rod. The track rod being a ball joint, inherently has little slop (or you'd fail the MOT!). The bush however, as well as controlling toe is one of the main ones as far as ride compliance goes. So it's always a compromise. Often allowing more toe change than you'd like, for the sake of ride - even on a hard bushed car from the factory like the ITR.

So, when you apply power, the wheel tries to pull the wishbone forward at the outside. That's force ends up being taken up by the toe control bush at the back of the wishbone. So the wisbone ends up at a different angle when the car's accelerating (e.g only when the wheel is trying to go faster than the car.). Since the track rod doesn't have the compliance, it stays fixed. Since the hub has moved closer to the track rod, that effectively makes the track rod appear longer as far as the geometry is concerned. Which gives a bit of toe it. Which scrubs some power, feeling etc away. Not ideal.

These traction bars work by bracing the first part of the wishbone, so that it has to compress the traction bar in tension before it can excert any load on the toe bush, and hence change the toe. That requires solid joints on the traction bar - a rubber bus won't work here. Therein lies the biggest disadvantage of the traction bar in the UK. Out road conditions tend to kill exposed spherical bearings very quickly, so you end up having to replace the joints. Might only be once a year, but be more often.

The critical thing with a traction bar is the geometry. The placement of the front links is critical. The geometry has to be right otherwise the arm will cause the suspension to bind.

Final thing on the traction bars. The length of the link has to be right too. If you pre-load the links, you need to adjust the track rod ends to get the right toe with the adjusted traction bar. Something easily forgotten.

H-braces have a different effect. They reduce subframe flex. Now the subframe tends to flex when you start to load up on turn in, and during a corner. They have a lot less impact on dynamic toe change. Still a very good mod, but for a different reason.

Here is an interesting video.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Austi...644387.htm
If you watch from 1:04 there is a side view that nicely shows the front wheel movement. It's a high horsepower car which exaggerates the effect - it's not quite so pronounced on a lower power car - but you get an idea of how much compliance there is...

For racing I replace the compliance bush with a substantial spherical bearing to improve the control dramatically. By racing I mean racing on circuits/hill climbs where the car is regularly checked over etc... I don't mean beating people away from traffic lights.

There is always compromise in suspension. With the rear compliance bushing if you go spherical you end up with a very harsh car and other knock on effects. For example the wind up of the standard rubber bush adds to the effective spring rate of the front suspesion - replace it with a spherical and you need a stiffer spring on the damper if you want to keep the same effective spring rate. Same thing happens to a lesser extent when you change the bush for a different hardness rubber one.


-Brian.

Honda nu arde uleiul, il foloseste.



The following 1 user says Thank You to yulasinio for this post:
  • vtin
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#4

stie cinva daca imi pun LCA-uri mai trebuie camber kit si pe spate? ideea e ca acum roata sta ok, dar ma gandesc sa nu modific unghiul cu alte LCA-uri (egay). suspensia e un coilover KW.



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#5

LCA-urile sunt de aceeasi lungime deci nu ar trebui sa ti se schimbe camberul. Camberul se schimba numai daca ridici sau cobori masina. Daca esti multumit de ce unghi ai acuma atunci nu mai cumpara brate ajustabile.
Honda nu arde uleiul, il foloseste.



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#6

trebuie sa schimb bucsele la bratele inferioare spate si costa f mult. vreo 90 lei una si sunt 6 bucati la ambele brate. si ma gandeam ca mai curand cumpar alte LCA-uri cu tot cu bucse. partea mai proasta e ca nu stiu exact ce fel de bucse au LCa-urile alea de pe ebay si cat is de bune. plus ca daca se duc bucsele alea cica nu prea se mai potrivesc altele



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#7

Normal se potrivesc bucsele din poliuretan care nu sunt prevazute cu guler si sunt mult mai usor de schimbat. Un kit complet (fatza-spate) de bucse din poliuretan te costa 7,5 milioane. Si eu vreu sa-mi iau in viitorul apropiat bratzul spate inferior si cel din fatza superior ca sa imi pot regla astfel unghiul de cadere si sa nu mai am parte de uzura prematura pe interior a anvelopelor.



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#8

man eu am LCA-uri de la D2 si nu-s cine stie ce, deja 2 bucse sunt fisurate,si am avut special grija sa nu le strang astfel incat sa nu se foarfece.
Yula stie unele mai ok , dar sunt mai scumpe ....



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#9

camber kit pe fata imi iau oricum deoarece am un unghi negativ cam mare si imi toceste cauciucul pe interior. pe spate unghiul e ok la cat de coborata e acum masina si fiindca nu o mai cobor, asa cum zice si yula nu are rost un camber kit pe spate. ramane problema bucselor din brate. bani de Function 7 sau Skunk 2 nu am si ma gandeam la celelalte mai ieftine.



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#10

Mai bine cumperi bucsi de la Hardrace, RS Race series sau chiar poliuretan daca te incanta, decat sa cumperi LCA-uri ieftine de pe net. Te trezesti dupa vreo 6 luni ca se duc bucsile si trebuie sa dai alti bani.
La D2 uri am observat ca sunt cam "subtiri" si daca nu se duce bucsa din ele isi poate face joc in brat Icon_sad
Deci daca nu ai bani de ceva solid mai bine cumpara bucsi, dai un ban da-l dai numai odata Icon_wink

Honda nu arde uleiul, il foloseste.



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#11

(16-01-2011, 18:03)yulasinio Wrote: Mai bine cumperi bucsi de la Hardrace, RS Race series sau chiar poliuretan daca te inchanta, decat sa cumperi LCA-uri ieftine de pe net. Te trezesti dupa vreo 6 luni ca se duc bucsile si trebuie sa dai alti bani.
La D2 uri am observat ca sunt cam "subtiri" si daca nu se duce bucsa din ele isi poate face joc in brat Icon_sad
Deci daca nu ai bani de ceva solid mai bine cumpara bucsi, dai un ban da-l dai numai odata Icon_wink

+1 Iagree

cu o mica obiectie , cele de poly desi sunt ok ca si pret in 1-2 ani o sa ai probleme cu ele , in plus trebuiesc periodic curatate si unse.
Eu unul am luat un set complet de bucsi cu cauciuc mai dur decat stoc de aici
http://picperformance.com/store/scripts/...roduct=233
de cele poliuretanice am auzit lucruri negative in privinta durabilitatii in timp.



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#12

imi trebuie doar bucsele pe spate. pe fata mi-am cumparat. probabil voi merge pe LCA-uri Hardrace cu bucse intarite, nu poly. am inteles ca Hardrace respecta dimensiunile OEM la bucse plus ca si produc bucse separat, deci in caz de probleme pot fi inlocuite. decat sa platesc manopera pe inlocuit bucsele din brate mai bine cumpar cu totul... cred



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#13

Singura slabiciune a bucselor din poliuretan este mizeria ce poate intra si eventual deteriora bucsa, dar pt asta sunt spalatori cu jeturi de jos in sus, si daca o ti curata pe dedesubt nu ai treaba cu ele, iar daca nu au unsoare le auzi adica vor scartzai. Eu sunt multumit de ele ca si duritate, o sa va zic mai multe despre ele peste catziva ani, pana acum sunt impecabile, cel putin astea nu au nici o reactie cu produsii chimici.



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#14

Vali de aceea am zis daca il incanta bucsile de poliuretan pentru ca nici eu nu sunt adeptul lor, mai ales ca fata de cauciuc ele nu isi revin la forma initiala, foarte important de retinut asta.

Hardrace face bucsi la aceleasi dimensiuni cu cele OEM numai ca folosesc un cauciuc mai tare, asa ca LCA-urile de la hardrace ar trebui sa foloseasca aceasi bucsa ca cea OEM numai facuta de ei binenteles.
Honda nu arde uleiul, il foloseste.



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